10% ethenol performance?

[CamaroFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

You're all missing the point. Who cares about the fuel efficiency? With all due respect, this is a muscle car forum. Our classic 350s never got decent gas mileage, so why do we suddenly consider gasoline based on the efficiency?

All respect, Blur, but while it is true no Camaro driver's #1 car priority is to have the greenest machine on the road, fuel efficiency IS an issue, especially since gas prices could go up at any time. Someone here mentioned a 14% loss??? That's pretty big, imo.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by MontyCarlo

It's worth noting that we're the only country on Earth that thinks our heavy taxation of Brazilian ethanol is legal. Everybody else calls it a violation of our trade treaties. It probably is - ethanol from sugar is only a fraction of the price of ethanol from corn. The government's blocking access to cheap ethanol in the hopes that we can eventually find a way to make corn-based ethanol cheap enough to be worthwhile without federal subsidies and special protection.

Not exactly...you see, Brazil is in the middle of a massive man-made deforestation...so they can grow more sugarcane, and make more ethanol. This is NOT good for the environment, and I'm not talking about global warming. Then, the corn ethanol thing is very, very old news; the gov't is not waiting for it to be cheap, they are trying to replace it (See Bush's ethanol mandate in 2007 (2006?)). Corn-based Ethanol is neutral at best...meaning there is very little advantage to it. And it will be phased out in the next decade or so, because FAR better alternatives are turning up, like switchgrass...

Cheaper, cleaner, easier, and non-invasive on other sectors of the economy.

Btw, I'm no expert, but I've done plenty of research and reports on this topic, so I invite you to ask any questions you want to. I'd be pleased to answer them to the best of my ability.

[zen]

Article regarding gas at the link:

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/gas/index.html

[volleyfan]

Originally Posted by CamaroFemme

All respect, Blur, but while it is true no Camaro driver's #1 car priority is to have the greenest machine on the road, fuel efficiency IS an issue, especially since gas prices could go up at any time. Someone here mentioned a 14% loss??? That's pretty big, imo.

14% loss is what I get when using E85. I've seen less than 1% loss on E10.

[volleyfan]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Not exactly...you see, Brazil is in the middle of a massive man-made deforestation...so they can grow more sugarcane, and make more ethanol. This is NOT good for the environment, and I'm not talking about global warming. Then, the corn ethanol thing is very, very old news; the gov't is not waiting for it to be cheap, they are trying to replace it (See Bush's ethanol mandate in 2007 (2006?)). Corn-based Ethanol is neutral at best...meaning there is very little advantage to it. And it will be phased out in the next decade or so, because FAR better alternatives are turning up, like switchgrass...

Cheaper, cleaner, easier, and non-invasive on other sectors of the economy.

Btw, I'm no expert, but I've done plenty of research and reports on this topic, so I invite you to ask any questions you want to. I'd be pleased to answer them to the best of my ability.

Dragoneye - Agree wholeheartedly with you. It will be a great day when we actually get to realistically producing ethanol from agricultural waste and byproducts on an economical basis! I've done a bunch of research on this as well to try and educate myself because of a lot of misinformation that's out there. Not a lot of people know for instance that most engines produced today have been tested to use E40 and in some cases E60 with no harmful effects (except for reduced MPG). One of many reasons the US doesn't blend more than 10% ethanol into fuel is that the car manufacturers won't warrant engines for blends higher than 20% (despite the testing I mentioned above).

MontyCarlo - Without getting into the environmental issues of deforestation that Dragoneye mentioned, I agree with you that the heavy taxation of Brasilian ethanol is a trade treaty double standard the US somehow seems to get away with.

[CWI]

Originally Posted by volleyfan

More reactionary

.

Everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe.

I have worked in the energy sector for 25 years. (Refineries, Power Plants AND Ethanol Plants.) I talk to some of the engineers who have first hand knowledge.

NOT just reactionary BS.

As for OP, I dont' see a difference in performance. I would have to find some 100% 92 octane and go back to the dyno for comparison.

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by zen

Article regarding gas at the link:

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/gas/index.html

Wow! Lot of reading but good info! Thanks!

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by CWIweldace

Everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe.

I have worked in the energy sector for 25 years. (Refineries, Power Plants AND Ethanol Plants.) I talk to some of the engineers who have first hand knowledge.

NOT just reactionary BS.

As for OP, I dont' see a difference in performance. I would have to find some 100% 92 octane and go back to the dyno for comparison.

A dyno comparo would be great! Interesting to see if there is any noticable difference.

[MontyCarlo]

I wasn't thinking about deforestation. Thanks for bringing it up.

[CamaroFemme]

Originally Posted by volleyfan

14% loss is what I get when using E85. I've seen less than 1% loss on E10.

Oh, well nevermind on that then.

Still, the mileage issue stands. I've heard a lot of people say there's a mileage difference. Anyone have links on the loss, if any?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by CamaroFemme

Still, the mileage issue stands. I've heard a lot of people say there's a mileage difference. Anyone have links on the loss, if any?

There is absolutely a mileage loss when using Ethanol in any blend. Be it 10%, or 85%. BUT, the loss at 10% is difficult to notice. But if you pay attention, you will see a few miles drop off your vehicles range. If you look at the numbers alone, they tell the story, too: One gallon of Ethanol contains no more than 70% of the energy found in a gallon of gasoline.

Now, the trade-off, is cost and emissions. There was a time, (last July, I believe) where the price of gasoline made the expensive corn-ethanol economically-smart. Despite the fuel mileage loss, there was a cost benefit to using it per mile traveled. At the same time, ethanol creates far less harmful emissions per mile traveled. Even though you have to burn more to go the same distance as a gallon of gas will take you, E85 is much cleaner.

[cozbyrt]

Originally Posted by CamaroFemme

Oh, well nevermind on that then.

Still, the mileage issue stands. I've heard a lot of people say there's a mileage difference. Anyone have links on the loss, if any?

http://www.businessweek.com/print/au...427_493909.htm


This article says anywhere from 25%-40% loss on E85.

The article also states that adding ethanol to gasoline increases its volatility and increase the VOC emissions, especially in summertime.

[Mr. Redbird]

Originally Posted by ahart04

No, you get better gas mileage with the ethanol

I noticed about a 20% drop in gas mileage when they started adding 10% ethanol. I also noticed that corn went from 12 ears for a dollar to 6 ears for three dollars.