Concerned about handling... - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Rekt · 10-23-2008, 10:19 PM

So, does a 3800 lb SS as an auto-x competitor sound feasible?

Discuss.

headpunter · 10-23-2008, 10:21 PM

Does a 3800 lbs BMW M3 sound feasible as a auto cross car?

andyrew · 10-23-2008, 10:35 PM

Anything is feasible as an autox car. I have a 3600lb Audi a4 w/ quattro that smokes most street tire cars (I generally run in the porsche club, and I am on the top of the street tire cars).

I was able to do 1.04 continuous G's on bridgestone RE01-R street tires on a skidpad (with no real setup of the suspension)

With the right tires and a properly done suspension the camaro will be just fine.

The problem it will have is transitions such as slaloms. Being such a heavy car it will need a fairly heavy suspension in order to keep the weight transfer and turn in right.

Some nice aftermarket lowering and stiffening springs will probably do the car justice, and most likely it will be tuned to have understeer so a bigger rear sway bar will probably also make a huge difference.

I am an avid autox'er and I plan on autoxing the Camaro (assuming thats what I get..)

Its more about driver ability than the cars.. Assuming the car is well balanced, has a decent amount of grip and has good turn in, any car can do very well at an autox.

Rekt · 10-23-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headpunter

Does a 3800 lbs BMW M3 sound feasible as a auto cross car?

Never seen one, unless you have been to meets with one around?

Rekt · 10-23-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyrew

Anything is feasible as an autox car. I have a 3600lb Audi a4 w/ quattro that smokes most street tire cars (I generally run in the porsche club, and I am on the top of the street tire cars).

I was able to do 1.04 continuous G's on bridgestone RE01-R street tires on a skidpad (with no real setup of the suspension)

With the right tires and a properly done suspension the camaro will be just fine.

The problem it will have is transitions such as slaloms. Being such a heavy car it will need a fairly heavy suspension in order to keep the weight transfer and turn in right.

Some nice aftermarket lowering and stiffening springs will probably do the car justice, and most likely it will be tuned to have understeer so a bigger rear sway bar will probably also make a huge difference.

I am an avid autox'er and I plan on autoxing the Camaro (assuming thats what I get..)

Its more about driver ability than the cars.. Assuming the car is well balanced, has a decent amount of grip and has good turn in, any car can do very well at an autox.

Sounds good.

I hope that not only does the car carry its weight properly, but allows the driver to feel more connected. That in itself is extremely important.

headpunter · 10-23-2008, 10:55 PM

well the BMW M3 is known for good handling, and it weighs in at 3800lbs...

andyrew · 10-23-2008, 11:18 PM

Well the M3 is a performance beast and everything was tuned for road racing so I would assume that car would handle fine.

The Camaro is a moneymaker for GM, where GM is more concerned with numbers for the general public (however it would be great if they made a "track package" with tuned suspension for road racing, I hear that ford is going to do this). One would expect the camaro to be more of a compromise for comfort than a "racing tuned suspension".

karr1008 · 10-24-2008, 12:08 AM

I don't see why this Camaro can't do well in AutoX but as Andyrew said, It's more about driver ability than the cars. Coming from an STi, at 3350 lbs. fully nannied and AWD it will be interesting to see how I will do with a powerfull brute RWD.

After trying the stock suspension for a while, I plan on beefier front and/or rear swaybars depending on how bad it needs them, better springs or later some coil overs and stickier tires and some lighter aftermarket wheels for the track.
Does anybody else has any other options in mind?

andyrew · 10-24-2008, 12:16 AM

I agree with your plan of upgrades 100%.

Also if for some reason I get the v6 i'll also go with a brake upgrade if the car see's track days.

TomServo · 10-24-2008, 07:47 AM

On a small technical course, don't be surprised if Miata's and Mini's post faster lap times. Since you aren't on the track at the same time it's only numbers posted on a white board. But if you were actually on the track together I'm sure there will be some frustration with these light weight cars able to out corner/brake you.

I learned this first hand with my Z51 vette. That's why I stopped attending (just to chew up tires and brakes) and now participate in HSDE's like the F-Body Association Road America weekends. There a car like the vette and even Mustang GT500 etc can out power these cars and post considerably faster "lap times".

andyrew · 10-24-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomServo

On a small technical course, don't be surprised if Miata's and Mini's post faster lap times. Since you aren't on the track at the same time it's only numbers posted on a white board. But if you were actually on the track together I'm sure there will be some frustration with these light weight cars able to out corner/brake you.

I learned this first hand with my Z51 vette. That's why I stopped attending (just to chew up tires and brakes) and now participate in HSDE's like the F-Body Association Road America weekends. There a car like the vette and even Mustang GT500 etc can out power these cars and post considerably faster "lap times".

You cant compare a light weight properly setup miata to a stock vette on a tight autox course... You should be comparing yourself to other cars in A stock and SS (super stock) (not familiar with the Z51 package).

However once you get a taste of a track day with a highly capable high hp car you really dont have the lust for an autox anymore.. Thats like a hamburger to a steak... Sure the hamburger is good but a steak is just that much more enjoyable..

Autox is a very good way to hone your driving skills and quicken your reflexes. Same as (dare I say it) Drifting; drifting teaches you how to control your car PAST the limit; if your autox sanctioning body approves of it, try drifting around a autox course. However you want to have camera's setup so you dont waste the fun you had destroying your tires

Crowley · 10-24-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headpunter

well the BMW M3 is known for good handling, and it weighs in at 3800lbs...

Take about 100 lbs off and you would be right ..

BTW .. everyone . .stock for stock .. don't expect the camaro to hang w/ the M3 in the twisties .. M3 is in a different league ..

Crowley

*Mr. Wyndham* · 10-24-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyrew

One would expect the camaro to be more of a compromise for comfort than a "racing tuned suspension".

The FE3 package is GM's top-end RWD suspention platform before you get into car-specific setups like the Corvette and CTS-V. This will be found underpinning the SS. FE2 is a step lower, and is found on the V6 models. During recent test-drives, among various praise, one reviewer called the V6 car "The American G37". Now...think better than that, there's your SS handling. I'm 100% confident it's more race-tuned suspension than compromising for comfort. (In fact, they even said the V6 car made the SRT8 feel "plodding") Bottom line: Handling will be exceptional. But don't take my word for it, get out and drive one in a few months!

andyrew · 10-25-2008, 02:35 AM

I just test drove the G8 GT, and I am confident that the handling of the camaro SS will be JUST fine for autox. It was very well proportioned and felt very stable.

In fact Its on my list right under the Camaro right now. In fact if I cant fit 4 adults in the camaro, im getting a slightly used G8... That car was a blast and a bargain...

10-23-2008, 10:19 PM	#1
Rekt Drives: Z34 370Z Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 149	Concerned about handling... So, does a 3800 lb SS as an auto-x competitor sound feasible? Discuss.

10-23-2008, 10:21 PM	#2
headpunter Not That sad..considering Drives: Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: the part of washington the capital forgot about. Posts: 3,747 View My Garage	Does a 3800 lbs BMW M3 sound feasible as a auto cross car? __________________ Stop Whinging

10-23-2008, 10:55 PM	#6
headpunter Not That sad..considering Drives: Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: the part of washington the capital forgot about. Posts: 3,747 View My Garage	well the BMW M3 is known for good handling, and it weighs in at 3800lbs... __________________ Stop Whinging

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10-23-2008, 10:35 PM	#3
andyrew Drives: Audi A4 STG3, Porsche 914 v8 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Modesto, ca Posts: 126 View My Garage	Anything is feasible as an autox car. I have a 3600lb Audi a4 w/ quattro that smokes most street tire cars (I generally run in the porsche club, and I am on the top of the street tire cars). I was able to do 1.04 continuous G's on bridgestone RE01-R street tires on a skidpad (with no real setup of the suspension) With the right tires and a properly done suspension the camaro will be just fine. The problem it will have is transitions such as slaloms. Being such a heavy car it will need a fairly heavy suspension in order to keep the weight transfer and turn in right. Some nice aftermarket lowering and stiffening springs will probably do the car justice, and most likely it will be tuned to have understeer so a bigger rear sway bar will probably also make a huge difference. I am an avid autox'er and I plan on autoxing the Camaro (assuming thats what I get..) Its more about driver ability than the cars.. Assuming the car is well balanced, has a decent amount of grip and has good turn in, any car can do very well at an autox.

10-23-2008, 11:18 PM	#7
andyrew Drives: Audi A4 STG3, Porsche 914 v8 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Modesto, ca Posts: 126 View My Garage	Well the M3 is a performance beast and everything was tuned for road racing so I would assume that car would handle fine. The Camaro is a moneymaker for GM, where GM is more concerned with numbers for the general public (however it would be great if they made a "track package" with tuned suspension for road racing, I hear that ford is going to do this). One would expect the camaro to be more of a compromise for comfort than a "racing tuned suspension".

10-24-2008, 12:08 AM	#8
karr1008 Supercharging Drives: 20XX Camaro SS Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N. Alabama Posts: 178 View My Garage	I don't see why this Camaro can't do well in AutoX but as Andyrew said, It's more about driver ability than the cars. Coming from an STi, at 3350 lbs. fully nannied and AWD it will be interesting to see how I will do with a powerfull brute RWD. After trying the stock suspension for a while, I plan on beefier front and/or rear swaybars depending on how bad it needs them, better springs or later some coil overs and stickier tires and some lighter aftermarket wheels for the track. Does anybody else has any other options in mind?

10-24-2008, 12:16 AM	#9
andyrew Drives: Audi A4 STG3, Porsche 914 v8 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Modesto, ca Posts: 126 View My Garage	I agree with your plan of upgrades 100%. Also if for some reason I get the v6 i'll also go with a brake upgrade if the car see's track days.

10-24-2008, 07:47 AM	#10
TomServo Drives: 2007 Z06 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Swansea IL Posts: 727	On a small technical course, don't be surprised if Miata's and Mini's post faster lap times. Since you aren't on the track at the same time it's only numbers posted on a white board. But if you were actually on the track together I'm sure there will be some frustration with these light weight cars able to out corner/brake you. I learned this first hand with my Z51 vette. That's why I stopped attending (just to chew up tires and brakes) and now participate in HSDE's like the F-Body Association Road America weekends. There a car like the vette and even Mustang GT500 etc can out power these cars and post considerably faster "lap times".

10-25-2008, 02:35 AM	#14
andyrew Drives: Audi A4 STG3, Porsche 914 v8 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Modesto, ca Posts: 126 View My Garage	I just test drove the G8 GT, and I am confident that the handling of the camaro SS will be JUST fine for autox. It was very well proportioned and felt very stable. In fact Its on my list right under the Camaro right now. In fact if I cant fit 4 adults in the camaro, im getting a slightly used G8... That car was a blast and a bargain...