[ender2664]

Why do you think it is that ford seems to have started wanting to keep up with camaro performance? During the 90s and early 2000s the Mustang GT was a joke compared to the camaro SS and I never heard much about Ford trying to match the camaro. it was almost like they conceded the camaro would have better performance. So why the sudden change?

[SpeedIsLife]

They're not trying to match the Camaro, at least not publically. The target for the 2012/2013 Boss 302 was the BMW M3 for example. The GT350 however was much more focused on the Camaro than ever before.

The real change and focus in performance started in 2008/2009 when the Challenger showed up and started cutting in on the Mustang's sales, the Camaro only enhanced that.

I just think they're trying (and brilliantly succeeding) at playing a global game and they're trying to adjust performance with that in mind.

[FastCarFanBoy]

its a see-saw battle thats been going on since 1967...sometimes Ford is on top and sometimes Chevy. Buy the one you like , but I recommend owning at least one of the other make at some point in your life.

[ender2664]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

its a see-saw battle thats been going on since 1967...sometimes Ford is on top and sometimes Chevy. Buy the one you like , but I recommend owning at least one of the other make at some point in your life.

This is my third camaro but I've owned a 2013 Mustang

[motorhead]

They are winning the sales race ,and that's what matters to them. The question is, are they winning the profitability race?

[Mike502]

I've owned both Mustangs and camaros since the 80's. IMO the mustangs from 1972 until 2003 were junk. The Cobra in 2003 put the mustang on the right path. Then Shelby got back with Ford and that put me back in mustangs again. Camaros from 1967 untill 2002 were always ahead of Ford. 2010 camaros hit a home run and the performance guys @ GM started to make a big impact on future models. Today it's a dog eat dog fight between Ford & GM. I think GM is again on top with current products. GM has Corvette , Cadillac and Camaro on its side. That's a hell of a lot of engineers. Ford has mustang and Multimatic and that's it. Look @ the amount of races GM is winning compared with Ford. No contest @ all. GM has NASCAR, WC,IMSA and Indy cars. Where the hell is ford ? The 16 Camaro has put the mustang back on its heels again.
Oh and yes Ford has the new Ford GT. Which after taxes is $485K. That's really going to move me back to Ford ...NOT !

[SpeedIsLife]

Not to argue...but I was always under the impression the late 80's Mustang GT's with the EFI 5.0 were pretty stout cars? I know they didn't have the torque of the EFI 350's but they were at least pretty light.

I may be mistaken, I kind of jumped from carb's straight to 2008+ cars..

[IOMike]

Both Ford and Chevy claim their car does not compete with the other, insinuating that their product strives for higher benchmarks than the low level car the other company is selling.

It's ironic, but it's what it is. Since the Chevy far outperforms the Mustang currently, it's a bit ironic for Ford to claim that though.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by IOMike

Both Ford and Chevy claim their car does not compete with the other, insinuating that their product strives for higher benchmarks than the low level car the other company is selling.

It's ironic, but it's what it is. Since the Chevy far outperforms the Mustang currently, it's a bit ironic for Ford to claim that though.

They certainly do play off of one another...and the competition is good. Al O always references Ford "punching back". But the Mustang is far from Camaro's only target...

Consider that it was the '12 ZL1 that caused critics to consider the Camaro was playing on a different level "above" your standard pony car...the '13 1LE that embarrassed Ford's Boss 302, and provided a sports-car level of driving... the 14 Z/28 that was the first of the segment to target some of Europe's legitimate "race cars" for double the price...and the 2016 SS that toppled the BMW M4 in a head-to-head and claimed the legitimate title of "Sports Car"...finally shedding the straight-line-only stigma of its muscle car roots. Now it'll take some time for that to set in...

Ford can't really claim those things, yet. The Mustang is good, but they haven't left the "shock and awe" factor on people after driving it...except for the GT350R, and rightfully so. They're moving in the right direction.

[Mike502]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Not to argue...but I was always under the impression the late 80's Mustang GT's with the EFI 5.0 were pretty stout cars? I know they didn't have the torque of the EFI 350's but they were at least pretty light.

I may be mistaken, I kind of jumped from carb's straight to 2008+ cars..

Yeah the 5.0 was a decent engine but the rest of the car from the exterior to the horrible interior. I will admit the mustang is night and day different today compared to the 80's. You couldn't get me near a fox body mustang in the past. They don't command any money in the collector market either. Like I said the 03 cobra and Shelby getting back with his old friend Edsel Ford was a Hugh factor. I've owned several used Shelby GT 500's. I might even consider a 17 GT350 when they hit the used car market. Then again a used 17 ZL1 might cancell that.

[SpookShow'84]

No doubt they are actively using GM cars for a benchmark of performance now. Otherwise there wouldn't have already been an advancement of the next gen mustang forward a couple years immediately after the GEN6's now solid/proven numbers.

The bigger sentiment they will battle now is that GM is much further ahead in the realm of performance as a brand wide goal, with the Corvette now being a world class sport car rivaling the European supercars, hence the GT and it ridiculous high pricing. They don't want the failings of the mustang to be perceived as the same as what happened to the dodge name plates after the gas crunch in the 70's by having name plates that no long actually fit the segment they are in.

The one thing that they will always have on GM though is that women buy mustangs in a much higher proportion than men. Pop-culture wise the mustang will always have a leg up from having celebrity owners and music over the decades that gave the upperhand to the mustang. You can make a GM as fast as a saturn 5 rocket and the mustang will still sell strong.

[Mike502]

Yes more women buy mustangs, I couldn't resist.
Actually that's a cobra in the background which was a beast Back in 2003.

[GreaseMonkey83]

Originally Posted by Mike502

I've owned both Mustangs and camaros since the 80's. IMO the mustangs from 1972 until 2003 were junk. The Cobra in 2003 put the mustang on the right path. Then Shelby got back with Ford and that put me back in mustangs again. Camaros from 1967 untill 2002 were always ahead of Ford. 2010 camaros hit a home run and the performance guys @ GM started to make a big impact on future models. Today it's a dog eat dog fight between Ford & GM. I think GM is again on top with current products. GM has Corvette , Cadillac and Camaro on its side. That's a hell of a lot of engineers. Ford has mustang and Multimatic and that's it. Look @ the amount of races GM is winning compared with Ford. No contest @ all. GM has NASCAR, WC,IMSA and Indy cars. Where the hell is ford ? The 16 Camaro has put the mustang back on its heels again.
Oh and yes Ford has the new Ford GT. Which after taxes is $485K. That's really going to move me back to Ford ...NOT !

This guy nailed it. I would add that the late 80's mustangs were a close match. But you also had to settle for basically a rear-wheel drive escort with a V8.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by Mike502

Yeah the 5.0 was a decent engine but the rest of the car from the exterior to the horrible interior. I will admit the mustang is night and day different today compared to the 80's. You couldn't get me near a fox body mustang in the past. They don't command any money in the collector market either. Like I said the 03 cobra and Shelby getting back with his old friend Edsel Ford was a Hugh factor. I've owned several used Shelby GT 500's. I might even consider a 17 GT350 when they hit the used car market. Then again a used 17 ZL1 might cancell that.

With all due respect...how is the collector market for 80s F-bodies? Can you even find an 80's camaro anywhere other than a u-pull-it?. The Fox bodies lit a fire under the aftermarket ass that has burned til this day and you don't find fox bodies in decent condition cheap even now.