Stabilitrak on 5th gen? - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

SoFlaZ · 12-19-2007, 10:36 AM

I'm not trying to bash it, I just want to be able to turn it off at times because my dad in his 96 Z a few years back was hit after trying to make a left turn across traffic. Shortly after he took off he must have had a little wheel spin and then the the power just quit in the middle of the road, then boom right in the rear quarter fender almost avoiding the accident.

*TAG UR IT* · 12-19-2007, 11:52 AM

Yuppers...I hate it when I pull out of my neighborhood. Lotsa traffic. I turn mine off to get out because I almost had that same catastrophy. Scared the Sh!t outta me!

$¢'s 5th Gen · 12-19-2007, 01:45 PM

My 96 v6 had a 2nd gear start button and I was testing how it worked. I floored it in the rain, from a dead stop, and it started in 2nd then overrode it and kicked down into 1st, started fish tailing all over the place.
I know in the LS2 GTO's the trac control doesn't totally kill the power, just lets off enough to stop wheel spin.
Isn't stability control more for SUVs or trucks to help keep from rollover?

stovt001 · 12-20-2007, 12:41 AM

Most performance cars have a performance mode on their stability and traction controls, and most expert reviews get their best times with stability control left on in the performance setting. If your stability control is pretty much shutting the car down, it means you really screwed up and pissed off the electronic nannies. Most drivers aren't 1/10th as good as they think they are.

Warghost · 12-20-2007, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EllwynX

There's no way to turn it on and off? There was a switch right in the console of my '02 to turn it on and off whenever you wanted.

Yeah, it can be turned off, but what I meant was having it disabled so that it doesn't automatically start up every time the car is turned on.

OzCamaro · 12-20-2007, 07:05 AM

stability control is different to traction control. Even traction control has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years as far as not cutting all power out and calculating many more times per second. It will almost definately be able to be turned off but probably won't interfere anywhere near as much as you think. We have it here in Australia on our commodores and you rarely see it working and when it does most times you won't even know that it had

EllwynX · 12-20-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warghost

Yeah, it can be turned off, but what I meant was having it disabled so that it doesn't automatically start up every time the car is turned on.

Ah ok. I forget whether or not the traction control in my Camaro would come back on when I started the car up again.

I don't think I'd ever turned it off anyway.

Warghost · 12-20-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EllwynX

Ah ok. I forget whether or not the traction control in my Camaro would come back on when I started the car up again.

I don't think I'd ever turned it off anyway.

In the Mustang, it needed to be turned off (via push button in console) whenever I'd want to accelerate fast from a stop. If there was any chance of wheel slippage then TC would need to be disabled or the car would bog down. It is a computer controlled safety feature, and it defaults to "Enabled" every time the car is started. However, if you didn't want it in, you'd have to push the "T/C Off" button every time you started up the car.

However, with the Diablo reprogrammer, it can be turned off permanently with a computer tune. The only thing that sucks about that option is that it NEVER turns on unless the program is erased, which returns it to the default setting. The button no longer turns on TC. So, I have to be a little careful when driving in rain. I live in Florida, so snow/ice is never an issue.

stovt001 · 12-20-2007, 11:11 PM

Tonight I played with the traction control in my Cobalt. It was raining, and from stoplights I'd mash the peddle hard. It would try to torque steer a bit, then the TC would softly limit power and gradually feed it back in. But this was all with the most awful launch technique on wet pavement. On dry pavement with proper launching technique the TC is never noticeable and I can pull off some really quick launches, and this is on an economic compact 4-banger powered commuter car. I'm sure the TC, SC, and all other electronic nannies on the Camaro will be just fine. They have improved by leaps and bounds lately, and I haven't heard any complaints about stabilitrak. It is likely that it can be turned off. I'm hoping for a competition mode too. Off for wet/snowy parking lot hooliganism, competition mode for serious driving, normal for my daily commute. I'm not worried one bit. Just watch the video of Jeremy Clarkson hanging the Commodore/G8/Vauxhall whatever's tail out, and all doubts about the dynamics of the Zeta cars will be put to rest.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 12-21-2007, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stovt001

Just watch the video of Jeremy Clarkson hanging the Commodore/G8/Vauxhall whatever's tail out, and all doubts about the dynamics of the Zeta cars will be put to rest.

:party0038:

69copo · 12-22-2007, 09:21 AM

I have mixed feelings on this. I have a CTS-V that has the traction controll and it is very invasive. I once lost a stoplight drag to an import because TC kicked in and almost stalled the car just as took off. The Dodge Ram behind me almost took out my trunk. When I pulled up to him at the next light I had TC off and it was no contest. It has also saved me a couple of times comming around a corner to fast and having the back step out a little to much. I steped in right away and straightend me out. I don't like it in the snow I have to turn it off to get it up some hills, it just comes on to early and prevents the wheel spin you need to get up these types of hills. I feel it's neither good nor bad just unneeded at times. Being able to turn TC on and off is a good thing. It works in my camaros and and in the caddy. I just hope the general makes the button easier to get to. In the caddy it have to open the glove box to find it. I has never failed me when I need it but it has interupted some fun. Try doing a doughnut in the snow and you will see what I mean. This is just my opinion.

LSxcellent · 12-22-2007, 10:55 AM

Differences:

-Traction Control: Onboard computer measures actual drive-wheel speeds, throttle position, and steering angle and calculates what the correct theoretical wheel speed should be. If either wheel suddenly accelerates (AKA breaks loose) then the computer pulls ignition (to reduce power) and grabs the brake on that one wheel to stop it from freely spinning. Almost all cars will have this (definitely the Camaro) since its wicked easy to do (the system uses the ABS wheel-speed sensors, so they just have to write more software, the hardware is already in place).

This system may also replace LSD's in the Camaro... by using the rear brakes to match wheel speeds they can save the cost of the expensive LSD system. Also, LSD's hamper steering feel, and are difficult to maintain (from GM's perspective). I wouldn't be surprised if an LSD wasn't offered... look at BMW, almost NONE of their cares have LSD's, they use brake-based traction control in all cases (except a few M-cars).

-Stability Control: This system is much more advanced... it uses an onboard accelerometer (a device that measures the motion of the car in 3D space) as well as throttle position, wheel speeds, steering angle, and a bunch of other sensors to predict how the car should be moving at all times.

Basically, if you turn the wheel to the right, the accelerometers should measure the cars turning force going around the corner. If you are sliding, the turning force will be much less than expected, and the cars computer will realize that you aren't going where you should be, and as a result will start applying the individual wheel-brakes and cutting throttle to try and get you back on track.

You can read much more here:

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/saf...2/article.html

Honestly, I don't think GM CAN sell the Camaro without both of these systems. The car just has too much power with RWD to be safe without them... most people are NOT as good a driver as they think, and ABS, TC, and DSC (Dynamic Stability ControL) will get them out of trouble.

Usually we get into trouble when we are not looking (icey patch, gravel patch as was mentioned earlier, etc). You can ALWAYS defeat these systems, so when you want to hoon around, or go street racing against idiots in imports (DON'T!) you can turn it off.

Just as an example my coworker bought a new MINI Cooper S right after I bought mine, and he opted to skip the DSC option (500bucks, cheap bastard!) and a month after taking delivery he was taking a highway on-ramp too fast and spun his MINI on an off-camber section right into a guardrail. He's a pretty good driver, and the road wasn't _that_ bad, but his mind was a split second too slow. In short, it would have been a LOT cheaper to buy the stability control.

~LSx

shibbychevy15 · 12-22-2007, 12:26 PM

Since we are sharing I would have to say that T/C isn't all that bad. In my 06 GTO it still allows that medium size burnout that will get the attention of a ricer and didn't slow me down to badly off the line. Now I will say it was a little more fun with it off but with 400hp and 400ft/lb of torque, T/C doesn't really ruin too much fun! The Camaro will pack plenty of power to allow you the benifits of T/C and to have a little fun as well!! just my few cents tho!

Cheers!!

VTXrider · 12-22-2007, 01:05 PM

I have an '05 CTS with the Sport package which adds Stabilitrac. As LSxcellent said this is different from traction control. My office exits on the a very busy section of road and always has some loose sand on the exit from nearby construction. I have a choice of nailing the gas to get in or waiting forever. i never wait. The Traction Control sometimes activates and in no way does it stall my car out. As some one above said it does cut the power and slowly bring it back up but I am still accelerating decently the whole time. It is definatly noticable but in general I would rather have it than not.

The Stability system is completly different and only comes, on the CTS with the Sport Performance Package ot the V. This engages on sideways slides and as I have notived does allow slight drift before activating. Incidentaly I hit a puddle once at night on the Highway going somewhat over the 70 limit (I did not realise it had even rained in the area before I got there). The car hydroplaned for an instant and then I became very happy to have Stabilitrac.

In the CTS-V the car has a "Competition Mode" to all of the Traction and Stability systems which I would have to assume would come with atleast higher trim Camaros.

12-22-2007, 09:21 AM	#25
69copo Sorry officer Drives: CTS/V 2SS/RS Collector Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cleveland OH Posts: 115 View My Garage	I have mixed feelings on this. I have a CTS-V that has the traction controll and it is very invasive. I once lost a stoplight drag to an import because TC kicked in and almost stalled the car just as took off. The Dodge Ram behind me almost took out my trunk. When I pulled up to him at the next light I had TC off and it was no contest. It has also saved me a couple of times comming around a corner to fast and having the back step out a little to much. I steped in right away and straightend me out. I don't like it in the snow I have to turn it off to get it up some hills, it just comes on to early and prevents the wheel spin you need to get up these types of hills. I feel it's neither good nor bad just unneeded at times. Being able to turn TC on and off is a good thing. It works in my camaros and and in the caddy. I just hope the general makes the button easier to get to. In the caddy it have to open the glove box to find it. I has never failed me when I need it but it has interupted some fun. Try doing a doughnut in the snow and you will see what I mean. This is just my opinion. __________________ Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

12-22-2007, 10:55 AM	#26
LSxcellent Drives: MINI Cooper S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 284	Differences: -Traction Control: Onboard computer measures actual drive-wheel speeds, throttle position, and steering angle and calculates what the correct theoretical wheel speed should be. If either wheel suddenly accelerates (AKA breaks loose) then the computer pulls ignition (to reduce power) and grabs the brake on that one wheel to stop it from freely spinning. Almost all cars will have this (definitely the Camaro) since its wicked easy to do (the system uses the ABS wheel-speed sensors, so they just have to write more software, the hardware is already in place). This system may also replace LSD's in the Camaro... by using the rear brakes to match wheel speeds they can save the cost of the expensive LSD system. Also, LSD's hamper steering feel, and are difficult to maintain (from GM's perspective). I wouldn't be surprised if an LSD wasn't offered... look at BMW, almost NONE of their cares have LSD's, they use brake-based traction control in all cases (except a few M-cars). -Stability Control: This system is much more advanced... it uses an onboard accelerometer (a device that measures the motion of the car in 3D space) as well as throttle position, wheel speeds, steering angle, and a bunch of other sensors to predict how the car should be moving at all times. Basically, if you turn the wheel to the right, the accelerometers should measure the cars turning force going around the corner. If you are sliding, the turning force will be much less than expected, and the cars computer will realize that you aren't going where you should be, and as a result will start applying the individual wheel-brakes and cutting throttle to try and get you back on track. You can read much more here: http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/saf...2/article.html Honestly, I don't think GM CAN sell the Camaro without both of these systems. The car just has too much power with RWD to be safe without them... most people are NOT as good a driver as they think, and ABS, TC, and DSC (Dynamic Stability ControL) will get them out of trouble. Usually we get into trouble when we are not looking (icey patch, gravel patch as was mentioned earlier, etc). You can ALWAYS defeat these systems, so when you want to hoon around, or go street racing against idiots in imports (DON'T!) you can turn it off. Just as an example my coworker bought a new MINI Cooper S right after I bought mine, and he opted to skip the DSC option (500bucks, cheap bastard!) and a month after taking delivery he was taking a highway on-ramp too fast and spun his MINI on an off-camber section right into a guardrail. He's a pretty good driver, and the road wasn't _that_ bad, but his mind was a split second too slow. In short, it would have been a LOT cheaper to buy the stability control. ~LSx __________________ "When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?"

12-22-2007, 12:26 PM	#27
shibbychevy15 I'm your Huckleberry! Drives: 2001 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 40	Personal Experience Since we are sharing I would have to say that T/C isn't all that bad. In my 06 GTO it still allows that medium size burnout that will get the attention of a ricer and didn't slow me down to badly off the line. Now I will say it was a little more fun with it off but with 400hp and 400ft/lb of torque, T/C doesn't really ruin too much fun! The Camaro will pack plenty of power to allow you the benifits of T/C and to have a little fun as well!! just my few cents tho! Cheers!!

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12-19-2007, 10:36 AM	#15
SoFlaZ Drives: 2013 SS LS3 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: WPB FL Posts: 947 View My Garage	I'm not trying to bash it, I just want to be able to turn it off at times because my dad in his 96 Z a few years back was hit after trying to make a left turn across traffic. Shortly after he took off he must have had a little wheel spin and then the the power just quit in the middle of the road, then boom right in the rear quarter fender almost avoiding the accident.

12-19-2007, 11:52 AM	#16
TAG UR IT www.Camaro5store.com Drives: 2014 ZL1 #705 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: SA, Texas Posts: 26,558 View My Garage	Yuppers...I hate it when I pull out of my neighborhood. Lotsa traffic. I turn mine off to get out because I almost had that same catastrophy. Scared the Sh!t outta me!

12-19-2007, 01:45 PM	#17
$¢'s 5th Gen Drives: SUV & Chaparral Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston Posts: 108	My 96 v6 had a 2nd gear start button and I was testing how it worked. I floored it in the rain, from a dead stop, and it started in 2nd then overrode it and kicked down into 1st, started fish tailing all over the place. I know in the LS2 GTO's the trac control doesn't totally kill the power, just lets off enough to stop wheel spin. Isn't stability control more for SUVs or trucks to help keep from rollover?

12-20-2007, 12:41 AM	#18
stovt001 Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2004 Taurus wagon Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: California Posts: 3,812	Most performance cars have a performance mode on their stability and traction controls, and most expert reviews get their best times with stability control left on in the performance setting. If your stability control is pretty much shutting the car down, it means you really screwed up and pissed off the electronic nannies. Most drivers aren't 1/10th as good as they think they are.

12-20-2007, 07:05 AM	#20
OzCamaro Drives: Holden Commodore Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 12	stability control is different to traction control. Even traction control has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years as far as not cutting all power out and calculating many more times per second. It will almost definately be able to be turned off but probably won't interfere anywhere near as much as you think. We have it here in Australia on our commodores and you rarely see it working and when it does most times you won't even know that it had

12-20-2007, 11:11 PM	#23
stovt001 Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2004 Taurus wagon Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: California Posts: 3,812	Tonight I played with the traction control in my Cobalt. It was raining, and from stoplights I'd mash the peddle hard. It would try to torque steer a bit, then the TC would softly limit power and gradually feed it back in. But this was all with the most awful launch technique on wet pavement. On dry pavement with proper launching technique the TC is never noticeable and I can pull off some really quick launches, and this is on an economic compact 4-banger powered commuter car. I'm sure the TC, SC, and all other electronic nannies on the Camaro will be just fine. They have improved by leaps and bounds lately, and I haven't heard any complaints about stabilitrak. It is likely that it can be turned off. I'm hoping for a competition mode too. Off for wet/snowy parking lot hooliganism, competition mode for serious driving, normal for my daily commute. I'm not worried one bit. Just watch the video of Jeremy Clarkson hanging the Commodore/G8/Vauxhall whatever's tail out, and all doubts about the dynamics of the Zeta cars will be put to rest.

12-22-2007, 01:05 PM	#28
VTXrider Drives: 2010 RY 2SS/RS Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 817	I have an '05 CTS with the Sport package which adds Stabilitrac. As LSxcellent said this is different from traction control. My office exits on the a very busy section of road and always has some loose sand on the exit from nearby construction. I have a choice of nailing the gas to get in or waiting forever. i never wait. The Traction Control sometimes activates and in no way does it stall my car out. As some one above said it does cut the power and slowly bring it back up but I am still accelerating decently the whole time. It is definatly noticable but in general I would rather have it than not. The Stability system is completly different and only comes, on the CTS with the Sport Performance Package ot the V. This engages on sideways slides and as I have notived does allow slight drift before activating. Incidentaly I hit a puddle once at night on the Highway going somewhat over the 70 limit (I did not realise it had even rained in the area before I got there). The car hydroplaned for an instant and then I became very happy to have Stabilitrac. In the CTS-V the car has a "Competition Mode" to all of the Traction and Stability systems which I would have to assume would come with atleast higher trim Camaros.