GM vice charman Lutz wants a higher gas tax

[nova]

I don't care what the rationale is. Its one thing when things are expensive because of the realities of the market. When you push into the realm of "we'll artificially inflate the price for 'the greater good'" effectively keeping anyone but you and your fellow rich folks from doing as they please, then that puts you squarely in the douchebag category...

[ssump29]

Ok but what happened to letting the consumer decide what they want, why do we need to tax gasoline more to force people to buy cars they don't want. It's another form of control and I'm against it.

People should be free to buy what they want not put in hardships because its not what the government or car companies want.

[Bert]

I'm a believer in the market economy, but in this case I agree with Lutz and I think the market should be manipulated a little. Actually I think the tax should be higher than that so it can have a real impact.

"dont' mess with the natural market forces" is a good argument; but unfortunately it is nowhere near real right now; there are already so many "un-natural" forces in the market that we're kidding ourselves to think differently.

Yes I know this is not a popular position in this community!

We need an incentive to move toward more efficient vehicles. If we were paying $10/gallon like they do in Europe, we'd probably be driving less and driving smaller cars like they do in Europe. If you want an expensive extravagent toy that burns a lot of gas, fine, but it's going to cost you. (no I don't think we should go to $10/gallon!)

One important caveat -- the tax revenues should be directed specifically toward energy projects, not go into the slush fund to pay for entitlement programs-- to reduce our dependency on foreign energy, develop new energy technologies (can you say nucular? ;-) ) improve air quality, etc. etc. etc.

Actually I think Lutz is being very forward-sighted when he says this; it might not be in GM's short term interests, but long term it should be a move in the right direction. This is usually said to be a trait of Japanese managers, rare for US executives who are usually accused of being interested only in short-term profits.

I'm not sure I even believe in human-caused global warming; I think it's about 50/50 that it has nothing to do with human activity; but that 50% risk is high enough that we should try to do someting about it regardless.

Also I have my doubts that electric cars are actually more energy efficient or better for the environment when you add it all up.

but we still need a reason to look for other solutions besides burning more gas

[UsedTaHaveA68]

If the gov't agreed to put this extra tax SOLELY to developing solar/wind/geothermal/other non-polluting sources of energy I would gladly pay it. Our country needs to move towards supplying all of our electricity with these sources. That's the only way electric cars would ever make sense, otherwise we're buring coal to recharge those cars. Then people could drive an electric car to work, and Camaros/Mustangs/Vettes/whatever else for fun.

[chd1]

Well I'm still going to keep all three of my camaros Gas can go up everything else does.
If you have to worry about gas then you shouldn't be in a 8cyl camaro. Get a six.

[coolman]

I would love to say something here ,but I would get banned. So all I'm going to say is their is a lot a nonsense talking here and wake up.

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by Bert

I'm a believer in the market economy, but in this case I agree with Lutz and I think the market should be manipulated a little. Actually I think the tax should be higher than that so it can have a real impact.

"dont' mess with the natural market forces" is a good argument; but unfortunately it is nowhere near real right now; there are already so many "un-natural" forces in the market that we're kidding ourselves to think differently.

Yes I know this is not a popular position in this community!

We need an incentive to move toward more efficient vehicles. If we were paying $10/gallon like they do in Europe, we'd probably be driving less and driving smaller cars like they do in Europe. If you want an expensive extravagent toy that burns a lot of gas, fine, but it's going to cost you. (no I don't think we should go to $10/gallon!)

One important caveat -- the tax revenues should be directed specifically toward energy projects, not go into the slush fund to pay for entitlement programs-- to reduce our dependency on foreign energy, develop new energy technologies (can you say nucular? ;-) ) improve air quality, etc. etc. etc.

Actually I think Lutz is being very forward-sighted when he says this; it might not be in GM's short term interests, but long term it should be a move in the right direction. This is usually said to be a trait of Japanese managers, rare for US executives who are usually accused of being interested only in short-term profits.

I'm not sure I even believe in human-caused global warming; I think it's about 50/50 that it has nothing to do with human activity; but that 50% risk is high enough that we should try to do someting about it regardless.

Also I have my doubts that electric cars are actually more energy efficient or better for the environment when you add it all up.

but we still need a reason to look for other solutions besides burning more gas

What you guys don't understand is this isn't good for the simple fact of the taxes it places on the wholesalers. My company and the retailers we sell too have been fighting taxes on Gasoline, Diesel, Bunker fuel, IF180 and 280 fuels and EPA regulations for the simply fact it would put a lot of businesses out of business. If you think it will be only .25 higher for the consumer you are dead wrong. We already pass the cost onto retailers with a markup also so once the gas stations get the product they will pass on the cost plus the markup and then markup again for their margin. For as much risk there is involved in this business the higher cost we have the more markup margin we put in the product, for the simply fact one mistake can have dire results.

So with business in this industry going out of business left and right the prices will only get higher, it won't matter what you are driving when gas prices are 6 dollars a gallon. More then not most people won't be driving with high gas prices. And with having a limited amount of businesses that gets this fuel to you consumers, that means less competition which in turn means higher prices be charged since there isn't a lower bider. So I ask you this, before you think how it will help think the whole process through and from origin to destination and once you factor in all those things tell me how good it sounds. Most people fail to realize all the other things it will effect.

[Revo1]

He needs to calm down with that crap.

[Tal]

Relatively low fuel costs are one of the great economic advantages the U.S. has. As fuel prices have risen the percentage of money spent on fuel that goes to taxes has dropped though so compensating for this with a small increase in the fuel tax isn't a terrible idea. Increasing any taxes before the economy has recovered IS a terrible idea though.

Originally Posted by MiamiCane

I have an idea for Mr. Lutz - How about you start pricing of the Volt around $20,000 instead of around $40,000 and maybe that will entice people to buy your products instead of increasing taxes on those of us that can't afford it.

That's just insanity. Cars cost money to produce, where exactly do you expect the money to come from to cover the other $10k+ in costs? Personally I think you should cover it for everyone since it was your idea.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I've got an idea...and shame on me for forgetting about it

Instead of a tax, why not lift the subsidies on these fuels? Hmmmmm

[rodimus prime]

So if people start eating too many tv dinners can we just add extra tax to? Maybe microwave ovens?

OOh or if people are using too much water, how about a toilet paper tax to reduce the dumps people take to save water?

Oooorrr we can tax oil changes to get people to stretch oil to the limts so we are not as reliable on it.

Wasnt there some sort of milage tax they were working on too? LOL.

Taxing doesnt fix the problem. Money doesnt fix emissions or erase a "carbon footprint". It just wastes money.

Taxing alcohol could reduce DUI'S, but more than likely people will just spend more money on alcohol and then get a dui anyways.

We could have a breathing tax to help off set the carbon dioxide poison (lol) that we all emit.

Methane tax the cow farmers for cow farts...those are bad for the enviorment.

We could make a solar tax for the right to use the sun...dont want people hogging that.

Im pretty sure I could think of a tax and excuse for prety much anything....much like our government.

Money doesnt solve issues....at all. Eliminate bs programs and redirect the money from that to fix the problems. That sounds like a real idea.

But until then, we could tax corn because it encourages people to buy e85 cars which still cause pollution.

Tax the metal industry for supplying metal that is used to make cars that cause pollution.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by rodimus prime

So if people start eating too many tv dinners can we just add extra tax to? Maybe microwave ovens?

OOh or if people are using too much water, how about a toilet paper tax to reduce the dumps people take to save water?

Oooorrr we can tax oil changes to get people to stretch oil to the limts so we are not as reliable on it.

Wasnt there some sort of milage tax they were working on too? LOL.

Taxing doesnt fix the problem. Money doesnt fix emissions or erase a "carbon footprint". It just wastes money.

Taxing alcohol could reduce DUI'S, but more than likely people will just spend more money on alcohol and then get a dui anyways.

We could have a breathing tax to help off set the carbon dioxide poison (lol) that we all emit.

Methane tax the cow farmers for cow farts...those are bad for the enviorment.

We could make a solar tax for the right to use the sun...dont want people hogging that.

Im pretty sure I could think of a tax and excuse for prety much anything....much like our government.

Money doesnt solve issues....at all. Eliminate bs programs and redirect the money from that to fix the problems. That sounds like a real idea.

But until then, we could tax corn because it encourages people to buy e85 cars which still cause pollution.

Tax the metal industry for supplying metal that is used to make cars that cause pollution.

Not really the same thing....but obviously I can understand why you feel the way you do.

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Keep the politics out of it. Regardless of ideology—and I guarantee he is not a socialist—he has a point. People buy big vehicles because there is no incentive to buy small vehicles. Do you think it is an coincidence that gas costs more in Europe and the average car is smaller there?

Dude there was no politics in what that guy said he simply stated what happens when you raise taxes he didn't mention any politicians political parties or ideologies

[Tal]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Not really the same thing....but obviously I can understand why you feel the way you do.

It's all using taxes to modify buying habits. Personally I favor something like a straight 7% federal sales tax on fuel with it seperated on the bill so people see exactly how much tax they are paying.