Hybrid Camaro, new fuel economy rules = way higher price?

[edbrick]

Most of the guys driving them (SUV's) that don't need them do not care about gas prices. If you have enough disposable income it doesnt matter. When you have money whats the diffrence between a eighty dollar fill up and a hundred dollar fill up.

[DGthe3]

SUV's are not needed by a large percentage of people who buy them. And its the people that dont need them who go from a real SUV to a crossover to (eventually) a wagon as gas prices go continually up. Those that have 4 kids and take the family and the boat out to the lake definately need large SUV's. But there are not tens of thousands of these families that buy such a vehicle every year.

[rray200]

Originally Posted by edbrick

Most of the guys driving them (SUV's) that don't need them do not care about gas prices. If you have enough disposable income it doesnt matter. When you have money whats the diffrence between a eighty dollar fill up and a hundred dollar fill up.

True, the guys buying the Hummers and the Escalades and Navigators are the ones with huge disposable income and don't care. But I have seen many middle income guys who borrow beyond their means to look cool in a Trailblazer, Explorer, Durango, Dodge Hemi pick ups, etc. That's what made the truck market so hot in the late '90s and led to so many sports cars to be discontinued as manufacturers catered to people wanting expensive trucks when gas was cheap. The truck market is in for a very rough ride the next few years if gas prices stay the way they are. Those numerous middle class full size SUV buyers will start staying away from them.

[munkee drummer]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

SUV's are not needed by a large percentage of people who buy them. And its the people that dont need them who go from a real SUV to a crossover to (eventually) a wagon as gas prices go continually up. Those that have 4 kids and take the family and the boat out to the lake definately need large SUV's. But there are not tens of thousands of these families that buy such a vehicle every year.

How can anyone tell what someone else may NEED? Are you for sure that the guy driving the SUV has no NEED for it? That bothers me on so many levels. Not pointing this directly to DGthe3, but to society itself. I have both a camper and a boat. Does that mean I NEED 2 suv's? or can I do with my toyota and 1 suv and a camaro. Do I NEED 3 vehicles? No. Can I afford them and the gas for them? Yes. Is it my decision to buy them? Yes.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

I AM NOT READING THIS ENTIRE THREAD. I am getting tired of talking about the new Camaro being killed off w/ RWD.

If GM prices the Camaro in the same ball park as the Corvette....WE MIGHT AS WELL KISS OUR BELOVED CAMARO GOODBYE. It is that simple. It must compare w/ the Mustang or it will DIE.

HAVE FAITH!!!! It'll be prices w/ the Mustang!
That is all I'll ever say about that again.

+1.

Let's not get hung up on all this sky-is-falling garbage. And since when does Autoblog "sit in on Camaro team meetings"?
Relax. Don't get caught up in the mad rush for nothing, lift yourselves above it, and watch all the crazys running around below you. THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

And that was one of the most fool-hardy speculation articles I've read for some time.....

[z28camaro2471]

Relax. Everything will be OK!

And if it isn't, you can get a real nice 4th gen SS or Z28 plus a relatively low mileage daily driver for $25g max. 2 cars for the price of one!

[Georgianne]

TAKE A DEEP BREATHE GUYS! At the Philly auto show I asked Scott about the pricing and he is positive that GM will give us a camaro that fits our pocketbooks. $30k-35k tops. I think you guys should start complaining to your congressmen for the impossible rules they are asking GM and the auto makers to up hold in such a short period of time.

[Cubanaso]

TAKE A DEEP BREATHE GUYS! At the Philly auto show I asked Scott about the pricing and he is positive that GM will give us a camaro that fits our pocketbooks. $30k-35k tops.

30-35K? That aint the Camaro we were promised and how does that compare to the Mustang GT? Now, I'm not taking what you were told to seriously (no offense) because that would price the Camaro into luxury car territory.

If that were the price, the Camaro is not in my future.

Mustang GT = 25K out the door

Since I don't want one, I guess I'd have to once again find my performance in a none US product.

BUT, again...my hope is the price for an entry level V8 will come in as the Mustang GT can.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by munkee drummer

How can anyone tell what someone else may NEED? Are you for sure that the guy driving the SUV has no NEED for it? That bothers me on so many levels. Not pointing this directly to DGthe3, but to society itself. I have both a camper and a boat. Does that mean I NEED 2 suv's? or can I do with my toyota and 1 suv and a camaro. Do I NEED 3 vehicles? No. Can I afford them and the gas for them? Yes. Is it my decision to buy them? Yes.

Well, I am basing my generalization on statistics. The number of people who need to haul things and has a large family are significantly less than the total sales of large SUV's. If were possible tow a boat and fit their wife and 4 kids with a cobalt then thats all they need. But this is impossible. Its even difficult to do in small SUV's. These people need to have something like a Suburban. Do I know that any particular SUV isn't needed? no. But there are lots of people who buy them because they are big, and since they are big they must be safe. That is the logic that is used. Or they just buy them because they are big and look impressive. for example, my cousin bought a high end SUV this summer. She lives a suburb of Toronto. Has no kids and doesnt seem to have plans for any, doesnt own a boat or a trailer. Has a snowmobile that stays at her parents cottage year round. They dont go to home depot to get supplies for home remodling. They have no need for anything that big. none. It is people like this that I refer to as not needing such vehicles.

[munkee drummer]

Originally Posted by Georgianne

TAKE A DEEP BREATHE GUYS! At the Philly auto show I asked Scott about the pricing and he is positive that GM will give us a camaro that fits our pocketbooks. $30k-35k tops. I think you guys should start complaining to your congressmen for the impossible rules they are asking GM and the auto makers to up hold in such a short period of time.

My thoughts exactly!!! Its like the government has a hand in making these cars i.e.... CAFE standards, speed impact bumpers with crappy back up lights, side mirrors that have to be soooo big, ect........ If the gov didnt have their hands in it the prices would be so much lower. The auto companies would make cars that got great gas mileage for the people who wanted them as well as the big honking suv's. But both at a significant price reduction. My $.02.

[munkee drummer]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Well, I am basing my generalization on statistics. The number of people who need to haul things and has a large family are significantly less than the total sales of large SUV's. If were possible tow a boat and fit their wife and 4 kids with a cobalt then thats all they need. But this is impossible. Its even difficult to do in small SUV's. These people need to have something like a Suburban. Do I know that any particular SUV isn't needed? no. But there are lots of people who buy them because they are big, and since they are big they must be safe. That is the logic that is used. Or they just buy them because they are big and look impressive. for example, my cousin bought a high end SUV this summer. She lives a suburb of Toronto. Has no kids and doesnt seem to have plans for any, doesnt own a boat or a trailer. Has a snowmobile that stays at her parents cottage year round. They dont go to home depot to get supplies for home remodling. They have no need for anything that big. none. It is people like this that I refer to as not needing such vehicles.

But again you assume that they dont need that particular vehicle. I dont comprehend how one can assume anothers need for anything. Maybe it makes her feel safe and that is what she needs. Maybe it makes up for other short comings but if that is what [I]she [I] needs then what is the problem. I'm sorry I just dont get it.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

But there are lots of people who buy them because they are big, and since they are big they must be safe. That is the logic that is used. Or they just buy them because they are big and look impressive.

Another aspect to this may also be AWD availability. I daresay that if more smaller vehicles (i.e. Malibu, Impala, etc) were offered w/ AWD; SUV, and Truck sales may decrease noticably.......

[Limeyness]

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/02/camaro-enters-t.html

Another Hybrid camaro story

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by munkee drummer

But again you assume that they dont need that particular vehicle. I dont comprehend how one can assume anothers need for anything. Maybe it makes her feel safe and that is what she needs. Maybe it makes up for other short comings but if that is what [i]she [i] needs then what is the problem. I'm sorry I just dont get it.

In her specific case, she told me outright that she does not need it. she wanted it because its big and had fancy gizmos like a nav system that she hadn't figured out after a month of ownership. I am confident that she is not the only one to think this way. Now that being said, I don't think that people like this represent the majority of buyers of such vehicles. But they do account for a good percentage of sales. I admit that some buy them because they feel safer (the truth is a bit of a yes and no -safer in crashes, less safe in roll overs and more likely to roll, and deadly to cars half their size)

As for making up for other shortcommings, well I don't include that in needs, you obviously do. Thats fine, we will have to disagree on the matter. I count needs as something that can be measured. ex, needing something that can tow 4000 lbs and can seat 6 people. Your choices are pretty limmited at that point. Safety is measured by crash ratings, however not everyone looks at these. And so a car that gets a 5 star rating is pretty much as safe as an SUV that gets 5 stars. There are plenty of cars that are as safe as SUV's so buying such vehicles for safety isn't much of an argument, people should just do a bit more research.

That leaves wants, and there are lots of people that want to buy SUV's. I will not deny that. I don't want an SUV but I do want a new Camaro. I don't need it, I can get by with a less expensive and more fuel efficient car. I can't picture ever needing to be able to go from 0-60 in less than 15 seconds.