10% Smaller Camaro

[1_2Many]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Will respond in detail below


Yes it is. Consult my sig for further information.

People who get narrow minded when doing bench comparisons


You advances in materials and use of CAD have helped a lot. To get the Camaro to look the same and have the same rigidity as it is now but with methods from 25 years ago it would probably weigh at least 4500 lbs.

The Camaro weighs ~3850 lbs. That isn't light by any stretch of the imagination. But lets say that we shrunk the Camaro by 10% in every dimension, it should drop in weight by 10% too. Well no it won't. Shrinking dimensions won't change the weight of the engine, tranny, or suspension which combine to over 1000 lbs (est). After that there might be another few hundred pounds of items that will weigh the same regardless of external dimensions: seats, stereo, etc. After that, things break down to being more or less a function of area. Shrinking it down won't save more than 100 lbs. I'd guess maybe 50. I copied half of that from another post, relating to making the C7 Corvette lighter, but the principle applies to the Camaro.

I took this from another post that I made in January: As far as cars getting heavier, the new honda civic weighs slightly less than the accord did 15 years ago. since then the accord has put on about 500 lbs. By adding safety and comfort features, cars will get heavier. Power this, that, and the other thing get heavy. things like side impact beams add weight, and so do good stereo systems. I'm sure that a bunch of airbags will add a few pounds too, not much but still its there.

All of this adds up to a few hundred pounds and its nearly impossible to make a volume car without most of these items.

Lastly (in case anyone missed it the first time), check my sig

Excellent points made there. If the vehicle shrunk, but kept the same drivetrain not much weight would be lost. I am curious however how much the body shell and chassis weigh alone. I would like to convert that weight into aluminum and see what comes up...just for fun.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Well I guess there's no point in discussing the matter with people have an insecurity about anything being smaller and believe bigger can only mean better and better can only mean bigger.

Also, who is back-peddling? I've said all along that a nip-and-tuck could do for the future. And no where did the OP ask for 10% in each direction, just 10% overall. Imagine a scale model. It has the exact same proportions, stance, everything, but it is smaller overall. Now just imagine the same thing at 9/10ths (though I will admit 10% is a bit much).

Huh? 10% overall is 10%in every direction. Even if he was talking about a 10% reduction in volume (2.15% in each dimension), it still wouldn't result in a 10% reduction in weight because the weight of many components is fixed and will not change with the size of the car.

[Hylton]

My wife wishes I was 10% smaller......

[lalometalik]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Originally Posted by MB2010CC

^^^This smiley says it all.

is this the smiley we were talking about?
i cant see it

update:
see it! thanks gtahvit

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by lalometalik

is this the smiley we were talking about?
i cant see it

here ya go.

[BigRigMike]

I would like to throw out one point, if weight is such a big issue then buy the LS V-6. It weighs less and has 300 horsepower which would put it closer to 4th gen power and it has a 6 speed.

Edit: There is some sarcasm in the remark but i am trying to show the point that everything is a compromise. The question is where the line is drawn. Some think's it weighs too much, others think it costs to much, but GM compromised on weight and cost and this is what happened.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Huh? 10% overall is 10%in every direction. Even if he was talking about a 10% reduction in volume (2.15% in each dimension), it still wouldn't result in a 10% reduction in weight because the weight of many components is fixed and will not change with the size of the car.

Not necessarily. You can make an overall 10% reduction in size without making everything exactly 10% smaller. You nip and tuck where you can. It seems he was saying a 10% change in every measurement would change the proportions, which is not true. So you can either scale everything down the same and keep the proportions, or tweak a little here and there. And I don't think anyone assumes a 10% external size change means a 10% weight reduction. Obviously some parts are fixed. You just trim the fat where you can. So for a theoretical 6th Gen, I'd love to see it look like the transformation from the 350Z to the 370Z. Same layout, same general idea, iconic styling, but smaller, lighter, and more powerful.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by stovt001

So for a theoretical 6th Gen, I'd love to see it look like the transformation from the 350Z to the 370Z. Same layout, same general idea, iconic styling, but smaller, lighter, and more powerful.

That's actually a great comparison...

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Not necessarily. You can make an overall 10% reduction in size without making everything exactly 10% smaller. You nip and tuck where you can. It seems he was saying a 10% change in every measurement would change the proportions, which is not true. So you can either scale everything down the same and keep the proportions, or tweak a little here and there. And I don't think anyone assumes a 10% external size change means a 10% weight reduction. Obviously some parts are fixed. You just trim the fat where you can. So for a theoretical 6th Gen, I'd love to see it look like the transformation from the 350Z to the 370Z. Same layout, same general idea, iconic styling, but smaller, lighter, and more powerful.

[stevenm357]

Just because you shrink it by 10 percent doesn't mean it will weigh 10% less. most of that weight isn't in the sheat metal it's in stupid shit like all those air bags, and extra electronics that control the entire world.

lets not forget PEOPLE are bigger now I'm 6'3" and I for one sure as hell don't like the leg room in most cars. now look at the kids coming up lots of them an inch or 2 taller. I won't even get into the obesity/over weight ratio that need the wider hip room also.

[MrKrisSullivan]

yeah I agree with the above... There's more safety standards than ever before and more required safety equipment also... Look at the Challenger it's a beast yeah for sure, but compared to the Camaro it really isn't that much heavier... On top of that look at how the Challenger received a 5 STAR rating from the insurance companines... Maybe the Camaro will be up there too, save everybody some cash on insurance...

[SSinferno]

Originally Posted by Supermans

How about use a real pic of the 370z

[GTAHVIT]

Please, continue this conversation.

But, just so you all know, I hate this thread.



I don't want to play in here anymore....

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by SSinferno

How about use a real pic of the 370z

Oh no, its a vampire version of the 350z!!!!!

I Vant to suck your blood!!!!