Official UpstateC5 Thread

[acammer]

Originally Posted by td195f

WGI only does two day weekday or three day weekend rentals, except as noted above, and most likely next years schedule is already full or close to it. There are not a lot of existing groups that give up there slots at WGI. Those 2010 track rentals rates are way out of date. The prices went way up after the resurface.

The last HOD event at WGI we had 5 Z/28s, first time I'd seen another one on track, and several other 5th and 6th Gen Camaros. The HOD event was disorganized and not well run, in my opinion. I also think they let people run solo to soon. Having an instructor in the car teaching you how to drive a track at speed is a good thing. You can get in a lot of trouble really fast at 100+ mph. Running the track without a pace car is a different deal. The paced laps severely limit your speed up thru the esses and in the corners. The esses can be a really hairy ride at over 100 mph.

HOD costs several hundred dollars more for an event than the BMW or Porsche club events. BMW club will be about $500 for two days next year and the only additional thing I got from HOD was hot dogs and hamburgers on Saturday night. Track time was the same. Four sessions on track of 20 or 25 minutes each day. The only up side of HOD a couple of weeks ago was the chance to work with Ross Bentley but that was not included in the base price and was more $$$, but based on his feedback I cut my best lap time by 3 seconds.

The BMW Club is a non-profit. They are charging what it costs to run the event and even instructors have to pay a fee for there track time. HOD is a for profit. They are in it to make money and I kind of got that vibe from them. HOD severely overbooked some of the days. On Friday we had over 50 cars on track in the advanced group and they all didn't belong in Advanced.

For those of you who want to do a real track event figure the real cost for a two day event will be >$1000 when you figure in the two day school cost, two nights lodging, food, fuel and track insurance for your car for the event. You can go without track insurance, but if you wreck your car, and it does happen, your regular auto insurance will most likely not cover anything that happens on the grounds at WGI. That also includes something that happens during the paced laps you do now. FYI, track insurance is only available during recognized instructional events.

If...you managed to rent the track for a day, you will have no instructors without some group like HOD coordinating the event and providing instructors and that means no insurance for your car. Any incident on track would be at your own risk with no coverage if something goes wrong. FYI, if you oil the track you will get a cleanup bill from the track. If you damage the track surface or the guardrail, you will get a bill for repair.

At Camarofest, HOD didn't have enough instructors and did lead/follow with novice drivers and everyone else was on there own. In my opinion this is not the right way to run an event. Novice drivers need in car instruction. No offense to anyone intended but if you got the track for a day count me out. I have no desire to be out on track at speed with a bunch of drivers that really don't have a clue. Sorry if anybody feels insulted by this but that's how I feel. I need to have some amount of trust in the people around me when you're running at racetrack speeds. The organized groups I run with have very strict rules on passing and they use the corner workers to enforce these rules.

Sorry to be the wet blanket on this. I've done a lot of track days at multiple tracks and this is not a cheap deal. If you want cheap go to the dragstrip.

I think we all appreciate the insight from someone who's been there, done that. You bring up a lot of good points regarding organization, instruction, insurance, etc.

I think you're probably right, if I'm reading between the lines, that those of us that actually want to pursue this, should jump into a HOD event or join in with a local BMW/Porsche club. Seems reasonable. I totally agree, you want instruction for folks that lack experience. I don't think anybody wants to wad their cars up.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by td195f

If you want cheap go to the dragstrip.

And anybody that wants to meet up for some 1320' passes lets get together and make some plans! I really wanna push for 11's on bolt ons.

[Flashpoint135]

.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by td195f

WGI only does two day weekday or three day weekend rentals, except as noted above, and most likely next years schedule is already full or close to it. There are not a lot of existing groups that give up there slots at WGI. Those 2010 track rentals rates are way out of date. The prices went way up after the resurface.

The last HOD event at WGI we had 5 Z/28s, first time I'd seen another one on track, and several other 5th and 6th Gen Camaros. The HOD event was disorganized and not well run, in my opinion. I also think they let people run solo to soon. Having an instructor in the car teaching you how to drive a track at speed is a good thing. You can get in a lot of trouble really fast at 100+ mph. Running the track without a pace car is a different deal. The paced laps severely limit your speed up thru the esses and in the corners. The esses can be a really hairy ride at over 100 mph.

HOD costs several hundred dollars more for an event than the BMW or Porsche club events. BMW club will be about $500 for two days next year and the only additional thing I got from HOD was hot dogs and hamburgers on Saturday night. Track time was the same. Four sessions on track of 20 or 25 minutes each day. The only up side of HOD a couple of weeks ago was the chance to work with Ross Bentley but that was not included in the base price and was more $$$, but based on his feedback I cut my best lap time by 3 seconds.

The BMW Club is a non-profit. They are charging what it costs to run the event and even instructors have to pay a fee for there track time. HOD is a for profit. They are in it to make money and I kind of got that vibe from them. HOD severely overbooked some of the days. On Friday we had over 50 cars on track in the advanced group and they all didn't belong in Advanced.

For those of you who want to do a real track event figure the real cost for a two day event will be >$1000 when you figure in the two day school cost, two nights lodging, food, fuel and track insurance for your car for the event. You can go without track insurance, but if you wreck your car, and it does happen, your regular auto insurance will most likely not cover anything that happens on the grounds at WGI. That also includes something that happens during the paced laps you do now. FYI, track insurance is only available during recognized instructional events.

If...you managed to rent the track for a day, you will have no instructors without some group like HOD coordinating the event and providing instructors and that means no insurance for your car. Any incident on track would be at your own risk with no coverage if something goes wrong. FYI, if you oil the track you will get a cleanup bill from the track. If you damage the track surface or the guardrail, you will get a bill for repair.

At Camarofest, HOD didn't have enough instructors and did lead/follow with novice drivers and everyone else was on there own. In my opinion this is not the right way to run an event. Novice drivers need in car instruction. No offense to anyone intended but if you got the track for a day count me out. I have no desire to be out on track at speed with a bunch of drivers that really don't have a clue. Sorry if anybody feels insulted by this but that's how I feel. I need to have some amount of trust in the people around me when you're running at racetrack speeds. The organized groups I run with have very strict rules on passing and they use the corner workers to enforce these rules.

Sorry to be the wet blanket on this. I've done a lot of track days at multiple tracks and this is not a cheap deal. If you want cheap go to the dragstrip.

Originally Posted by acammer

I think we all appreciate the insight from someone who's been there, done that. You bring up a lot of good points regarding organization, instruction, insurance, etc.

I think you're probably right, if I'm reading between the lines, that those of us that actually want to pursue this, should jump into a HOD event or join in with a local BMW/Porsche club. Seems reasonable. I totally agree, you want instruction for folks that lack experience. I don't think anybody wants to wad their cars up.

I don't disagree with anything you said.

At CamaroFest/HOD @ NCM, our hands were pretty well tied in that we had far more drivers than there were instructors available on a weekday. We also have a dramatically higher concentration of novice drivers at our event than an established HPDE club. We did what we could. All in all, no big wrecks, and a lot of people learned a lot of things...I'm happy with that.

As far as renting the track - it's a REAL long shot...I've done it at a few different places, in most cases using an established HPDE company and their network to fill in the gaps CamaroFest can't provide, like instructors. Just wanted to offer that up...easier for an organization, than a person.

In any case...I'm still up for a true HPDE/Education at WGI. As you've pointed out BMW club a few times, and hearing how HOD runs their stuff out here....I will be looking at dates next summer. NCM, WGI, Mid-Ohio, and VIR...those are my dreams for next season.

[ZED SLED]

I agree with everything above. Sounds like a lot more than I would want to take on. Aside from that, we have a hard enough time getting even 20 people to commit to the $15 paced laps.

Originally Posted by TonyNDeb

Off of the current topic, but suggestions for an indoor car cover? Last year my hood got scratched, so trying to not let that happen this year.

I have the black GM cover that has the ZL1 logo pattern on it I bought on Amazon. Pretty sure they also make them that don't have the ZL1 pattern on it. It is lightweight and lined. Cost was about $275 when I bought it a couple of years ago. Made for a 5th, but fits fine on my 6th.

[TonyNDeb]

Originally Posted by ZED SLED

I have the black GM cover

Been looking at the GM ones,, will probably end up with the red one. Deb doesn't like the grey one, so it's black or red.

[Joebot8484]

Originally Posted by TonyNDeb

Been looking at the GM ones,, will probably end up with the red one. Deb doesn't like the grey one, so it's black or red.

The cover that zed sled if talking about, it's laundre for your car!

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[vinman]

Originally Posted by Joebot8484

The cover that zed sled if talking about, it's laundre for your car!

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Is that your car Joe? If so, how do you like those wheel dollys?

[Joebot8484]

Originally Posted by vinman

Is that your car Joe? If so, how do you like those wheel dollys?

Yup that's my Z, I got the dollies at harbor freight about 10 year's ago. I've used them on all 3 of my Camaros and they're still holding up.

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[BLU DUCE]

What a great day 9:30 A.M. are very first snow of the year. [YAH]

[ZED SLED]

Only 1 day rental track event open for 2018 is April 18th. Probably a little early in the year even if we could swing it. On to Plan B, whatever that is.

[vinman]

Originally Posted by ZED SLED

Only 1 day rental track event open for 2018 is April 18th. Probably a little early in the year even if we could swing it. On to Plan B, whatever that is.

$100 a head for a cannonball run around Seneca lake with 1st, 2nd and 3rd place payouts! helmet optional

[ZED SLED]

Originally Posted by vinman

$100 a head for a cannonball run around Seneca lake with 1st, 2nd and 3rd place payouts! helmet optional

Yeah baby! Count me in.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by vinman

$100 a head for a cannonball run around Seneca lake with 1st, 2nd and 3rd place payouts! helmet optional

Sign me up!