Poll: Forged pistons & Rods in Z 28?

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by KarFan

GM builds production cars to sell. Not production cars with overbuilt race spec engines.

No disrespect intended, KarFan, but what then is the Z06 and the ZR1 ? They're the top of the Corvette line, just as the Z28 will be the top of the Camaro line.

I'm also not suggesting an LS9 for the Z28, just upgrading a couple of critical engine components that you don't want to fail catastrophically when under exceptional pressure. It's all a matter of where the balance point lies between price and best possible engine components. That's kinda what I wanted to know everyone's opinion on, and why I asked the question.

I'll have to agree, I would be surprised if they put forged components into the LSA for us, but at least it has been offered up as a thought. It seems to be fairly well received as an indicator of increasing the value, at least in the case of Z peeps around here.

Maybe someone will consider an "engine performance package" for 2013. I did hear someone say something about a Horsepower War with the GT500, and we want to stay in the lead after we take it.




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[syr74]

If this engine shows up without forged internals GM will receive endless crap over it. Ultimately the grief just isn't worth it on a hand assembled engine IMHO. GM should be able to offer a Z28 with forged internals for a GT500 competitive price given the parts sharing the Z28 will benefit from the GT500 doesn't have.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by syr74

If this engine shows up without forged internals GM will receive endless crap over it.

From their own customers, or people who breath with their mouths open?
Chances are slim they'll really get hammered over a non-issue...a few wise cracks from magazines, maybe....but hardly "endless crap". The LSA, as-is, is an incredible piece of machinery...outliving the LS9 even on the durability test.

[thedak]

The LSA was designed for the CTS-V.

Forged pistons are more money and more noisy.

It was a no brainer for GM to go the route they did.

[Scarrzz]

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From a business standpoint, I bet every salesperson would be instructed to mention "forged internals" and "outstanding durability" at some point during the test drive. That means something to everyone that reads those magazines, which means most of the people who are going to seriously consider buying one.

The LSA is a serious piece of machinery as is, but you have to admit there is some logic to forged internals standing up to more abuse than current stock equipment.

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[GrnMchin]

really no need unless your going to hammer the piss out of it or push greater then 650 hp JMO.

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

really no need unless your going to hammer the piss out of it or push greater then 650 hp JMO.

How appropriate. One of my nicknames happens to be "Sledge."

I was told no earlier than last night that Peter Gabriel's "Sledgehammer" should be my theme song.

Well, that IS what she said...


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[syr74]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

From their own customers, or people who breath with their mouths open?
Chances are slim they'll really get hammered over a non-issue...a few wise cracks from magazines, maybe....but hardly "endless crap". The LSA, as-is, is an incredible piece of machinery...outliving the LS9 even on the durability test.

Alright, the reality here is that cars like the Z/28 are rolling marketing campaigns pure and simple. That means that, in the end, perception matters as much as reality.

Throw in the fact that the lack of forged internals is going to have a very real consequence for the heavy duty modding crowd and yeah, there will be a real price to pay if GM skimps here. How heavy of a toll that will take on the car is up for debate.

[Super83Z]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I trust GM engineering more than I trust people who claim their cars exploded because of a bad tank of gas...sorry.

Which engineer's words are you trusting? The one that put the starter wire too close to the exhaust on the early 2010 Camaros? The ones that signed off on the worst rear-end in automotive history for the 3rd gen and 4th gen F-bods? Or maybe still its the one that designed the washer fluid heating system in their SUV's that cause fires? Ever see where one of these "brilliant" engineers put the bleeder for the clutch on a 4th gen F-bod? Should I continue? I bet I could go all day.

Just because one of GM's engineers said it will be ok doesn't mean squat. I haven't met an engineer yet that can admit to making a mistake. They are all ridiculously over-confident in their decisions. Do you honestly believe that one of them would say "Yea that motor in that $50K car is junk." Of course they are going to say its good.

Perception IS everything. The LSA is a wonderful piece of machinery, it just has a glaring Achilles heel.

[8cd03gro]

Forged internals may not matter at this point, but you better believe if GM comes in with a gt500 killer that doesn't have forged internals, Ford is going to bump the power out of the LSA's safe range. The 5.4 already has the 660hp setup ready to go with warranty and all. It would take extremely little for Ford to offer that setup, even at the current MSRP. GM must know this and will hopefully act accordingly. Now before somebody responds with, "the LSA can easily handle those power levels" I suggest you think about this from a mass production standpoint. With a factory tune and factory pieces, the LSA will NOT safely handle those outputs well enough to warranty. There is a reason the ls9 exists and it's not because they needed another engine with a number in the name. Honestly, I would expect a blown ls3 over the LSA. I just find it too coincidental that this blower kit from GMPP would be released weeks before the z28. Why even spend the time on R&D if you're going to be releasing a blown model to the lineup less than 2 months later? Just a thought.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Super83Z

Which engineer's words are you trusting? The one that put the starter wire too close to the exhaust on the early 2010 Camaros? The ones that signed off on the worst rear-end in automotive history for the 3rd gen and 4th gen F-bods? Or maybe still its the one that designed the washer fluid heating system in their SUV's that cause fires? Ever see where one of these "brilliant" engineers put the bleeder for the clutch on a 4th gen F-bod? Should I continue? I bet I could go all day.

Just because one of GM's engineers said it will be ok doesn't mean squat. I haven't met an engineer yet that can admit to making a mistake. They are all ridiculously over-confident in their decisions. Do you honestly believe that one of them would say "Yea that motor in that $50K car is junk." Of course they are going to say its good.

Perception IS everything. The LSA is a wonderful piece of machinery, it just has a glaring Achilles heel.

I was thinking more of the engineers who've designed an entire automobile, and not just tinkered with engines. The engineers who've had to design powertrains to last beyond 100,000 miles without doing a darn thing but change the oil....the guys who put their products through the most ruthless tests you can imagine...JUST to make sure a bad tank of gas won't destroy their product. Those guys.

I'll say again that IF a Z28 buyer wants to modify their vehicle beyond the limits of the engine -- it's his or her responsibility, not the manufacturer's to ensure it doesn't blow up. The majority of buyers would benefit from not having to shoulder the cost of a feature meant for the few.

But now I'm repeating myself...no, I don't think the LSA or the Z28 needs forged pistons. As is. Maybe they change things and decide to bump up the power which necessitates forged pieced. Who knows...

[Super83Z]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I was thinking more of the engineers who've designed an entire automobile, and not just tinkered with engines. The engineers who've had to design powertrains to last beyond 100,000 miles without doing a darn thing but change the oil....the guys who put their products through the most ruthless tests you can imagine...JUST to make sure a bad tank of gas won't destroy their product. Those guys.

I'll say again that IF a Z28 buyer wants to modify their vehicle beyond the limits of the engine -- it's his or her responsibility, not the manufacturer's to ensure it doesn't blow up. The majority of buyers would benefit from not having to shoulder the cost of a feature meant for the few.

But now I'm repeating myself...no, I don't think the LSA or the Z28 needs forged pistons. As is. Maybe they change things and decide to bump up the power which necessitates forged pieced. Who knows...

Nothing like striving for mediocrity.

Either way I guess you can put a price on peace of mind. ($500)

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Super83Z

Nothing like striving for mediocrity.

Either way I guess you can put a price on peace of mind. ($500)

nothing like blaming a car company for not making a product survive the rigors of being highly modified beyond what they advertise and sell. . .


if you want to play with real power, then you need to do your research replace the weak links and then go for the real power. I will guarantee that most SS owners think they can slap a supercharger on their car push 700 horses and not expect to do anything with the clutch (if it's a manual), rear end or the like. but yet I guess it's GM's mediocrity for not supplying a clutch that can withstand those types of power levels. go for no responsibility on the owner!!!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Forged internals may not matter at this point, but you better believe if GM comes in with a gt500 killer that doesn't have forged internals, Ford is going to bump the power out of the LSA's safe range. The 5.4 already has the 660hp setup ready to go with warranty and all. It would take extremely little for Ford to offer that setup, even at the current MSRP. GM must know this and will hopefully act accordingly. Now before somebody responds with, "the LSA can easily handle those power levels" I suggest you think about this from a mass production standpoint. With a factory tune and factory pieces, the LSA will NOT safely handle those outputs well enough to warranty. There is a reason the ls9 exists and it's not because they needed another engine with a number in the name. Honestly, I would expect a blown ls3 over the LSA. I just find it too coincidental that this blower kit from GMPP would be released weeks before the z28. Why even spend the time on R&D if you're going to be releasing a blown model to the lineup less than 2 months later? Just a thought.

While I agree with your many of your statements above, I just don't know if Z28, or CAMARO for that matter, will get support like the GT500 has enjoyed through Ford's performance division. Has GM's performance division even been revived? I haven't noticed, but I believe without that division up and running, I really don't see the support, unfortunately . That's not to say I don't want it I also believe you're right in LSA not handling those levels with GM's blessing. Why did they stop at 556 and 638 for CTS-V and ZR1? I know they'll handle more power, easily, than what's advertised, but is that something GM engineered into the engines? I think Ford's gone this way because without having a supercar, or something in the same league as Corvette, they needed somethink like the GT500 with plenty of headroom and potential.

Yes - I'd like a forged bottom end. Would I tax it as hard as maybe many of you here? Probably not. I'll be happy from 550-600 at the tires and if LSA can get me there without worry, as is, I'll be happy. Would I pay an extra $1000 for a forged bottom end stock? Sure! Do I think this will happen, like this? No.

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

nothing like blaming a car company for not making a product survive the rigors of being highly modified beyond what they advertise and sell. . .

if you want to play with real power, then you need to do your research replace the weak links and then go for the real power. I will guarantee that most SS owners think they can slap a supercharger on their car push 700 horses and not expect to do anything with the clutch (if it's a manual), rear end or the like. but yet I guess it's GM's mediocrity for not supplying a clutch that can withstand those types of power levels. go for no responsibility on the owner!!!