[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Funny you mentioned that.

Part of the presentation of the 1LE preview last month, was that Camaro has the fastest sales in the segment (little time on lots). And part of their presentation at this event mentioned that the Camaro experienced its best January sales since 1999, in this 2016 calendar year.

Everyone I spoke to appears pleased with sales figures, while of course, everyone would like to sell more cars just on principal. They're hitting targets, and making money...which is most important for the survival of the nameplate...

Trust me, to the public that is what they would say.

According to the data on the site, it looks like 2011 was pretty close, but checking previous January sales on the chart, January 2016 isn't that much higher than most Januarys for all of Gen5................and that includes selling 2015s and 2016s.

And if you look at February sales, 2016 is behind almost every other February on the chart. So picking one month that you did a slight bit better than Gen 5 and going back to volumes of the Gen4 Camaro which was in it's death throws isn't super positive to me.

In the end, I think GM is going after profit, not volume. That has been their mantra for some time. Problem is that mentality works as long as you make a profit on a single car.

Here is the deal. GM has traditionally trumpeted XX% of our customers buy the car for styling. This is a HUGE play with the studio to get their way. Problem is you need to ask the people that rejected your model and bought something else. Why didn't you NOT buy my model?

Time will tell.

And to be clear, I'm not negative on the car, just GM's current methods. I have my opinions on part of why it isn't selling as well as it should and by that I mean outselling Mustang. I want them building awesome cars with broad appeal selling to everyone on the planet. GM has decided to focus on limited sales satisfying a smaller but more passionate fan base with the Camaro. And that's not a bad thing. It's just different that what I had HOPED for, and I recognize that on this site I am in a very tiny minority. Data suggests that is what they are doing here. Using the new Cruze, Malibu, Volt, Spark (name an OEM with 5 all new launches in a year WOW) to get the volume and using Camaro to be even more profitable.

[Mr. Wyndham]

IMO, I just want the car to survive. That is my motivation and interest in sales figures...to do that, ultimately they must make money...If lower volume/higher price gets that done, so be it.

I am optimistic that things will shift a little now that the four banger is available for sale.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by richm

I find it interesting that people are calling the T4 "cheap"? It's only $1500 cheaper than the V6!! Most Camaros will be selling from $35K to $50K+, which definitely is not an inexpensive car.

My 1ss was sub 35K out the door.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Trust me, to the public that is what they would say.

According to the data on the site, it looks like 2011 was pretty close, but checking previous January sales on the chart, January 2016 isn't that much higher than most Januarys for all of Gen5................and that includes selling 2015s and 2016s.

And if you look at February sales, 2016 is behind almost every other February on the chart. So picking one month that you did a slight bit better than Gen 5 and going back to volumes of the Gen4 Camaro which was in it's death throws isn't super positive to me.

In the end, I think GM is going after profit, not volume. That has been their mantra for some time. Problem is that mentality works as long as you make a profit on a single car.

Here is the deal. GM has traditionally trumpeted XX% of our customers buy the car for styling. This is a HUGE play with the studio to get their way. Problem is you need to ask the people that rejected your model and bought something else. Why didn't you NOT buy my model?

Time will tell.

And to be clear, I'm not negative on the car, just GM's current methods. I have my opinions on part of why it isn't selling as well as it should and by that I mean outselling Mustang. I want them building awesome cars with broad appeal selling to everyone on the planet. GM has decided to focus on limited sales satisfying a smaller but more passionate fan base with the Camaro. And that's not a bad thing. It's just different that what I had HOPED for, and I recognize that on this site I am in a very tiny minority. Data suggests that is what they are doing here. Using the new Cruze, Malibu, Volt, Spark (name an OEM with 5 all new launches in a year WOW) to get the volume and using Camaro to be even more profitable.

I'm just the opposite, I view the 1ss as clearly superior to the GT or Scat Pack. I view the V6 as clearly superior to BRZ, Civic SI, V6 Challenger, V6 and I4 Mustang, base WRX, Infinity Coupe/ 370Z, GTI, A4 Audi, 3 series base BMW. I view the I4 convertible, clearly superior from a DD stand point verse Miata, S70 Volvo.

For the V8 the 1ss base model is already significantly faster, this lead will only increase bolt on vs bolt on. The Challenger is at end of life, the Mustang has pushed forward the next chassis by 2 years. That is a LONG time for Camaros to be dominant on the street and the race track. I own a Challenger for looks and room. I own a 1SS cause it just bad to bone out the door with UNLIMTED tuning potential. I think this is 1998 all over again and there will be a decade of Camaro dominance in all forms of racing and what wins on race day sells Monday morning. The Challenger is still nicer.

[SUMBODY SUMONE]

Great write up!

Here's a link I found this morning to a video from SaabKyle04. He also talks about the convertible and turbo.

[camaro1&6]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Of course, the V8 can also be modified. The entry level Camaro will not be a viable option for anyone able to afford the SS...but there is no doubt that the 4-cylinder will be more easily suped-up, with the turbo being already there, by those who already own one. 300-350hp should be cheap and easy to do with these cars.

I don't think anyone here thinks you cannot also modify the V8.

I'm sorry, but no reason to get on the defensive, my point is by the time you put the mods into a 4 cylinder to catch up to the lt1 you might as well just by the SS , few mods on the LT1 is still ahead and getting great fuel economy, best in the segment , I'm sorry maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, to me 4 cylinders don't equal a muscle car. Just my opinion, as proven bigger is better

[camaro1&6]

Originally Posted by richm

I find it interesting that people are calling the T4 "cheap"? It's only $1500 cheaper than the V6!! Most Camaros will be selling from $35K to $50K+, which definitely is not an inexpensive car.

Totally agree, again I wouldnt spend 30k on a 4or6 when I can have a v8 like the lt1 for the price great thought nice review but not my cup ,,,, just saying

[bballr4567]

That T4 does sound good!!! It's interesting. GM really nailed the sound on the Camaro for all three engines.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by camaro1&6

Totally agree, again I wouldnt spend 30k on a 4or6 when I can have a v8 like the lt1 for the price great thought nice review but not my cup ,,,, just saying

Once again, yes, you can get a 1SS for the price of a FULLY LOADED V6 or T4. You are getting a no option V8 for that price though. How many people do that? Not many.

Plus, the V8 really cant be had for $30k yet. Lowest we've seen here is about $33k. While its a great price for what it the SS is you can still get a fully loaded T4 for that price.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by camaro1&6

I'm sorry, but no reason to get on the defensive, my point is by the time you put the mods into a 4 cylinder to catch up to the lt1 you might as well just by the SS , few mods on the LT1 is still ahead and getting great fuel economy, best in the segment , I'm sorry maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, to me 4 cylinders don't equal a muscle car. Just my opinion, as proven bigger is better

I'm not defensive. I'm planning to purchase a Zxxx if/when it is released. I just wanted to offer an alternative viewpoint as far as the appeal.

Truth is, none of the Camaro models are true "muscle cars", anymore. They're all sports cars. Very nimble, and tightly tuned suspensions...and the four cylinder model offers a great entry level option for those who don't have 35+k available to spend on an 8, but still want style and legitimate performance.

The concept of a "Turbo 4" is also appealing to some buyers the same way a "V8" resonates with others.

It's a good option. But it's not for everybody, obviously. That's why we have options.

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Trust me, to the public that is what they would say.

According to the data on the site, it looks like 2011 was pretty close, but checking previous January sales on the chart, January 2016 isn't that much higher than most Januarys for all of Gen5................and that includes selling 2015s and 2016s.

And if you look at February sales, 2016 is behind almost every other February on the chart. So picking one month that you did a slight bit better than Gen 5 and going back to volumes of the Gen4 Camaro which was in it's death throws isn't super positive to me.

In the end, I think GM is going after profit, not volume. That has been their mantra for some time. Problem is that mentality works as long as you make a profit on a single car.

Here is the deal. GM has traditionally trumpeted XX% of our customers buy the car for styling. This is a HUGE play with the studio to get their way. Problem is you need to ask the people that rejected your model and bought something else. Why didn't you NOT buy my model?

Time will tell.

And to be clear, I'm not negative on the car, just GM's current methods. I have my opinions on part of why it isn't selling as well as it should and by that I mean outselling Mustang. I want them building awesome cars with broad appeal selling to everyone on the planet. GM has decided to focus on limited sales satisfying a smaller but more passionate fan base with the Camaro. And that's not a bad thing. It's just different that what I had HOPED for, and I recognize that on this site I am in a very tiny minority. Data suggests that is what they are doing here. Using the new Cruze, Malibu, Volt, Spark (name an OEM with 5 all new launches in a year WOW) to get the volume and using Camaro to be even more profitable.

I've been saying the same thing for awhile now (bold type). Camaro fans will always buy Camaros. Chevy should have gone after a different type of buyer to increase the car's appeal.

I think Chevy could have produced a car that satisfied traditional Camaro buyers as well as broaden the car's fan base.
The majority of 5th gen. owners like their cars, so they won't be trading it for a 6th. gen. Why try to appease this faction of Camaro owners when the majority won't be buying the 6th gen. in the first place?

Like you said, only time will tell.

FYI - For me personally, I am 100% pleased and satisfied with the 6th gen.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

I've been saying the same thing for awhile now (bold type). Camaro fans will always buy Camaros. Chevy should have gone after a different type of buyer to increase the car's appeal.

I think Chevy could have produced a car that satisfied traditional Camaro buyers as well as broaden the car's fan base.
The majority of 5th gen. owners like their cars, so they won't be trading it for a 6th. gen. Why try to appease this faction of Camaro owners when the majority won't be buying the 6th gen. in the first place?

Like you said, only time will tell.

FYI - For me personally, I am 100% pleased and satisfied with the 6th gen.

So far, 61% of Camaro buyers have been trading in non-GM vehicles...I think they're being successful in having a broad appeal. And they're selling just as many cars (without a full lineup) as last generation. Just not in the sheer numbers we're hoping for, as enthusiasts.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Truth is, none of the Camaro models are true "muscle cars", anymore. They're all sports cars. Very nimble, and tightly tuned suspensions...and the four cylinder model offers a great entry level option for those who don't have 35+k available to spend on an 8, but still want style and legitimate performance.

Camaros were never muscle cars, they are pony cars and by definition always had tightly tuned suspensions.

True there were some very few but some big block big HP pony cars, these were the .5% production. Note I said the combination of big block and high HP, so a 396 375HP SS does not count.

Camaro, Mustang and Challengers all offered comparative handing to what was being offered from Europe and Japan.

I don't get the fully optioned. Sorry my 1SS has all I could ever need or want, I had a 69 Z/28 that is the definition of no options. Well it did have p/s and p/b. LOL

Really the G8, charger, and SS are the closest we have to Muscle cars, that being an intermediate body with large high HP V8. I am surprised the ss does not have a DI engine?

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

So far, 61% of Camaro buyers have been trading in non-GM vehicles...I think they're being successful in having a broad appeal. And they're selling just as many cars (without a full lineup) as last generation. Just not in the sheer numbers we're hoping for, as enthusiasts.

amen, I crossed shopped everything from the new type R which many never come, Miata, Scat Pak, Shelby, BRZ, GT and even a Cayman. To my mind the 6th gen is just dominant. This is 1998 with the release of the LS1, there is nothing that can match the car stone stock or mod for mod. All engine options are viable in all forms of racing.