I saw more Hellcats yesterday than ZL1 Camaros!

[harmonyp]

Seems all about advertising to me. Lack there-of for the ZL1, high profile for the Hellcat. Hell - the name Hellcat in itself is great advertising! I'd love to drive a Hellcat for the heck of it some day. I highly doubt I'd trade it out for my new ZL1.

[brian-nicola]

Just back from Yuma, AZ. Never saw a ZL1 or a Hellcat...but I did see a Lambo headed through town!

[alex70olds]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

Or maybe, just maybe, the Challenger Hellcat is the more desirable car! I don't remember GM having to halt orders of the ZL1 because the demand was outpacing the supply.

And I wonder if some people understand the word exclusive? By definition, it means something that is only available to a particular person or group. Last time I checked, anybody could buy a ZL1, if they had the desire and financial means to do do.

I remember back when I owned my 2005 GTO, some fellow owners would refer to its "exclusivity" as one of the reasons they bought it. What I found they really meant, more often than not, is that it was the only non-Corvette GM performance car they could get at the time, so they needed to justify buying a car with less than spectacular styling.

You should have been around trying to get an allocation in the beginning. The ZL1 was limited in 2012, with many dealers charging way over sticker.

[revobasher]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

Correct, which is why I put the financial caveat in my original post. But let's be real here, if someone can afford a Challenger Hellcat, they can certainly afford a ZL1. Can't say the same about the McLaren. Again, "exclusive" is not the word I would use to describe owning ZL1. They might be seen on the roads/at car shows less often than other makes models, but that makes them "rare", not "exclusive".

True True. Exclusive was probably the wrong word.

But I do rarely see another on the road.. Other than car meets I have only seen one other on the street.

[Jeb114]

What amazes me according to cars.com there are still 51 Brand new 2013 ZL1's still sitting on New Car Lots......and 2 2012's

[ss/rs/378]

Originally Posted by Raven87

I am sorry little off the subject but these Hellkitties don't do a thing for me just looks like a green and white box going down the road no real lines to speak of like the ZL1 has just saying! And what size is those skinny little rear tire's?

[kevinw]

im in the Kansas city area, and I never see a ZL1. even the dealers don't really carry them much anymore. when I bought my 2LT in Oct. 2013, there seemed to be more ZL1 and they had one in showroom, a yellow vert.
I don't think the ZL1 is exclusive, . it just has a limited market. plus the fact, the price point runs into the vette. I know .... they are two different cars and 2 different buyers, but still, it and the z28 run into vette territory.

I think the ZL1 is a great car, and even with the Hell Kitty, or cat, or whatever it is, I would still take the ZL1. I don't like the name Challenger. so, I would have to get a Charger Hellcat, but its a 4 door.
Porsche, etc all get up to real pricey cars.

but, I am a GM person, and the Camaro, to me still rules. SO, ZL1 owners, don't fret over that Dodge, you still have a great car!!

[Murder 1]

There is only so much top shelf American muscle market to go around. Ford will have GT500 and GT350, Mopar will Have Hellcat Challenger and Charger, and we will have ZL1 and Z28, Cadillac has the V series. Then there are limited edition versions of some cars like the Laguna Seca Boss. I dont count gimmicks like Hot Wheels and Transformers because thats just badging / accessories. I'm only counting performance packages.

I told a Dodge dealer 2 years ago Mopar needed to get in the muscle race (beyond SRT) and he said the market was too narrow. Obviously Mopar felt differently. Hellcat is a stupid fast 4,499 pound example of excess.

I would like ZL1 to be somewhat limited in production because when you get overly abundant the value goes down. But then you can't go extinct like the Super Sport either. Hopefully the next version will re-stimulate the Bowtie. Maybe that 6.5L 396 cid turbo engine will come to pass.

Down here some jumped out of ZL1 to get into Stingray. I'm not budging.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by alex70olds

You should have been around trying to get an allocation in the beginning. The ZL1 was limited in 2012, with many dealers charging way over sticker.

I was. I actually ordered and bought a '12 ZL1.

[alex70olds]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

I was. I actually ordered and bought a '12 ZL1.

I don't think I would call the '12 rare, and not subsequent years either. There are quite a few around here. The Hellcat, GT350R, Z06 etc show we are still in the most exciting time ever for performance. I also really don't think any of these are worth buying for investment purposes, not for me anyway.

[Raven87]

I would rather see the ZL1 as popular as the Hellcat but to do that, it needs to offer what the Hellcat does - ridiculous power or something you can't get elsewhere besides MRC and a hard to see out of cockpit.

Do you think the Hellcat would sell like it does if it did not DO what it does? No way - if that car only had 580-600 HP, it would be sitting on lots waiting for buyers rather than the other way around. That 707 HP is like catnip to the performance car buyer.

The ZL1 is hamstrung with only 580 HP - and that is why the Z/28 is languishing as well. Yes - both are incredibly awesome cars. But they are NOT selling.

I'm all for uniqueness - unless this 'uniqueness' is due to the car not being sought after.

If you want to sell anything it has to be attractive to the masses. It has to be wanted and desired but GM continuously loses sight of the fact that to make something desired and wanted you need two things - a desirable product and MARKETING.

Nothing wrong with saying 'We are only going to build 2000 units' - as long as those 2000 fly off the lot. If you still have several left sitting around (even worse, years after the model year ended), your 'limited production' means nothing.

Actually, when something does not sell well it really only means 'limited desirability' which could be for a number of reasons; price, marketing, appeal, performance, etc.

We can boast all we want about what the ZL1 can do on the track, how we bought it for 20% off, etc. But that doesn't sell the cars. For GM to be convinced to keep product like the ZL1 available, they really need to up their game in my opinion to make the car a 'Gotta have it!' type of vehicle for the performance car buyer.

Novelty and newness will only get you so far - we saw that with the 2012 ZL1, we saw it with the 2004 GTO, and so on and so on.

Look at the 662 GT500 - people were dying to get their hands on one. Compare resale value of the GT500 vs the ZL1 and you will see the reality of a desirable product.

Dodge got it right with the Hellcat. While it may be an 'overweight and bloated Challenger', the 707 HP and low 11 seconds timeslips is making EVERYONE want one. Call it any derogatory name you like - it is selling and it performs.

Meanwhile, we still have 2012 and 2013 ZL1s sitting on lots. GM needs to wake up.

[hotlap]

Lets not forget the that 12,363 ZL1's were produced in 12/13/14 in light of it being one upped power wise by the GT500 and later the Hellcat. Its done alright.

FYI - The only other ZL1 I've seen was an IOM coupe on a dealers floor. Never in the wild

[Raven87]

And there were 15,453 GT500s built in those same MYs.

The Hellcat didn't come out until the 2015 model but the Challenger SRT8 sales were higher in 2012 than the ZL1 - they sold 7210 units in 2012 alone. Total SRT8 figures for 12-14 MYs was 11,131, within ~1200 of the ZL1.

Kind of surprising...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Raven87

And there were 15,453 GT500s built in those same MYs.

The Hellcat didn't come out until the 2015 model but the Challenger SRT8 sales were higher in 2012 than the ZL1 - they sold 7210 units in 2012 alone. Total SRT8 figures for 12-14 MYs was 11,131, within ~1200 of the ZL1.

Kind of surprising...

Not trying to argue as I'm no expert here but...

Wasn't 2012 ZL1 production delayed and orders rolled over to 2013?

Didn't the 2012 Challenger SRT8 have a NA engine and an MSRP that was $10k less than a ZL1?

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums...-2015-a-68401/

Not really apples and apples... No?

In 2013 ZL1 production was 7,956 and GT500 only 4,885

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...uction-numbers

http://www.***********.com/zl1-specs.php