For Those with Camaro Problems...Escalation Procedure

[Dans2SSCamaro]

Originally Posted by themossman

My oil pump failed...a known issue.

GM has failed to respond other than to tell me my powertrain warranty if voided due to modifications.

I was willing to have the diagnosis completed and absorb the bill if the issue was unrelated to the oil pump. There was no response. Customer service provided me with no information regarding escalation and referred me back to my dealer. My dealer then referred me back to GM customer service.

Very disappointing.

Very simple to understand....if you mod your engine, you void your powertrain warranty.

[Toyaholic]

Originally Posted by camaropete

Guys, enough bashing. Take it somewhere else. This thread is to help people who need help. Customer service does what they can to help out. They can't always move mountains and sometimes customers are asking to fix stuff that isn't GM's responsibility. So you have stated your point about customer service. We get it. Move on.

I do understand the frustrations of the vehicle owners, but you're right.. This for people looking for help, not for ranting.

Just courious, how many positive solutions that make happy customers have come from this thread?

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by mad@gm

You guys are correct, sorry, it can be too easy to get on a rampant over bad feelings that can be hard to forget and get over.

Thanks for understanding. And agreed, it is easy to get on a roll.

Originally Posted by themossman

My oil pump failed...a known issue.

GM has failed to respond other than to tell me my powertrain warranty if voided due to modifications.

I was willing to have the diagnosis completed and absorb the bill if the issue was unrelated to the oil pump. There was no response. Customer service provided me with no information regarding escalation and referred me back to my dealer. My dealer then referred me back to GM customer service.

Very disappointing.

Originally Posted by Dans2SSCamaro

Very simple to understand....if you mod your engine, you void your powertrain warranty.

themossman, as Dan said, pretty cut and dry. I have said it before that if you mod your vehicle you are setting yourself up for just this situation. And why won't GM look at it? Because you bought the car knowing that modifying voided the warranty. So why would they spend time, money and effort with further investigation if they already know?

Originally Posted by Toyaholic

I do understand the frustrations of the vehicle owners, but you're right.. This for people looking for help, not for ranting.

Just courious, how many positive solutions that make happy customers have come from this thread?

I know for a fact that there have been quite a few positive outcomes from customer service experiences and from escalations made through this thread. Each situation is unique though.

[Toyaholic]

CamaroPete,
I was hoping to get a number of satified people from a thread of 185 posts. Trying to figure out if this thread is worth others time to deal with.

Every time a GM owner has to think about their issue again, it gets more and more frustrating. This can be a big heartache.:( I haven't had time to persue my issue, nor wanted to have to tell the story again with no hope of progress. I will take it to the next step... as soon as I get the time.

I do appreciate your time trying to help me and understand you are not the final decision maker.

[mwt18]

On Saturday 5/7/2011, during a hard second gear shift, my transmission output shaft broke. I had the car towed to the nearest dealership. When the dealership opened on Monday, 5/9/2011, they called to tell me that they would look at it and get back to me later that day. The following day, they called back to tell me that they looked at it and believe that it looked to them like the transmission shaft was indeed broken, but they didn’t have a transmission tech, so I needed to have the car towed to another dealership. This seemed odd to me, and I wasn’t sure about what to do at this point, so I called GM Customer Assistance. Customer assistance was very helpful and helped me arrange to have the car towed to another dealership. The following day (Wednesday, 5/11/2011) the service manager at this dealership called me to tell me that they had the car in the shop and they had confirmed that the output shaft was broken and that they just got through taking pictures. I asked them what kind of pictures and the guy told me, "We had to take a snapshot of your engine computer and send it to GM along with pictures of your supercharger and other modifications." He told me that they should get a decision from GM in a day or two as to whether or not the repairs will be covered under warranty. On Friday, 5/13/2011, the dealership called me back to inform me that the GM was not going to warranty the repairs due to the modifications done to the car. I told him that I had been looking into this issue and that the transmission output shaft in the early builds are known to be defective and that the failure was not caused by modifications. He told me that I would have to call GM. They would not get involved and had to do what GM told them to do.

I am aggrieved by this decision for the following reasons:

• GM recognizes that there was a manufacturing defect in the early builds and subsequently fixed the problem. However, GM did not issue a recall for the early, affected cars. They didn't even publicly announce what the root cause of the problem was. My car was built before the issue was identified and addressed.
  Refer to:
  http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...blem-is-fixed/
  http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54832
  
• GM failed to directly trace the failure to my modifications. It’s my belief that modifications do not void the warranty unless the modifications cause the problem. The exact same failure has occurred in cars without modifications.
  Refer to:
  http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121986
  
• GM has even fixed other modified cars affected by this issue under warranty.
  Refer to:
  http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121986
  http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31598

My main goal is to get the car repaired ASAP. I’m not willing to let the car sit while I get the runaround. If I can’t get the decision overturned in a couple of days, I’m going to have the car towed to a transmission shop to be repaired. I’ll then have to fight for reimbursement.

Pete, can you offer any advice or assistance?

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by mwt18

On Saturday 5/7/2011, during a hard second gear shift, my transmission output shaft broke. I had the car towed to the nearest dealership. When the dealership opened on Monday, 5/9/2011, they called to tell me that they would look at it and get back to me later that day. The following day, they called back to tell me that they looked at it and believe that it looked to them like the transmission shaft was indeed broken, but they didn’t have a transmission tech, so I needed to have the car towed to another dealership. This seemed odd to me, and I wasn’t sure about what to do at this point, so I called GM Customer Assistance. Customer assistance was very helpful and helped me arrange to have the car towed to another dealership. The following day (Wednesday, 5/11/2011) the service manager at this dealership called me to tell me that they had the car in the shop and they had confirmed that the output shaft was broken and that they just got through taking pictures. I asked them what kind of pictures and the guy told me, "We had to take a snapshot of your engine computer and send it to GM along with pictures of your supercharger and other modifications." He told me that they should get a decision from GM in a day or two as to whether or not the repairs will be covered under warranty. On Friday, 5/13/2011, the dealership called me back to inform me that the GM was not going to warranty the repairs due to the modifications done to the car. I told him that I had been looking into this issue and that the transmission output shaft in the early builds are known to be defective and that the failure was not caused by modifications. He told me that I would have to call GM. They would not get involved and had to do what GM told them to do.

I am aggrieved by this decision for the following reasons:

• GM recognizes that there was a manufacturing defect in the early builds and subsequently fixed the problem. However, GM did not issue a recall for the early, affected cars. They didn't even publicly announce what the root cause of the problem was. My car was built before the issue was identified and addressed.
  Refer to:
  http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...blem-is-fixed/
  http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54832
  
• GM failed to directly trace the failure to my modifications. It’s my belief that modifications do not void the warranty unless the modifications cause the problem. The exact same failure has occurred in cars without modifications.
  Refer to:
  http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121986
  
• GM has even fixed other modified cars affected by this issue under warranty.
  Refer to:
  http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121986
  http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31598

My main goal is to get the car repaired ASAP. I’m not willing to let the car sit while I get the runaround. If I can’t get the decision overturned in a couple of days, I’m going to have the car towed to a transmission shop to be repaired. I’ll then have to fight for reimbursement.

Pete, can you offer any advice or assistance?

First of all, I am very sorry to hear that you have a problem. Secondly, I have posted in this thread and on this forum time and time again regarding this type of situation. Any time you make modifications to your car, you run the risk of voiding your warranty. It is really at the discretion of GM. Now, if you put an aftermarket seat in your car and your engine blows up that's one thing. But if you make heavy modifications to your car that dramatically change its performance, you are really at risk. Putting a superchanger on your car makes a significant change to HP which is directly tied to your powertrain. I am no mechanic so I can't say whether that did or didn't cause your output shaft to break, but it does give reasonable cause to deny your warranty claim.

You could try calling the customer service line back before you take the car to an independent repair shop to have the work done. But my guess is that you will get the same response and in this case I can't fault GM for that response.

[mwt18]

Originally Posted by camaropete

Any time you make modifications to your car, you run the risk of voiding your warranty. It is really at the discretion of GM.

False! We are protected from 'GM's discretion' by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I've already taken it to GM executive level, contacted my attorney, and BBB.

GM tries to use this comp out all the time. And it usually works! I'm sure it saves GM tons of money. But, it's unlawful and unethical.

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by mwt18

False! We are protected from 'GM's discretion' by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I've already taken it to GM executive level, contacted my attorney, and BBB.

GM tries to use this comp out all the time. And it usually works! I'm sure it saves GM tons of money. But, it's unlawful and unethical.

I completely agree that the M-M Warranty Act was put in place to protect consumers in warranty claims. However, in your specific case you made a MAJOR drivetrain modification to the car. Then, you experienced damage to your drivetrain. Are you saying that there is no way that adding 100s of HP to your car through aftermarket products had a negative effect on your stock drivetrain? Come on man.

[D Day Dog]

Originally Posted by camaropete

I completely agree that the M-M Warranty Act was put in place to protect consumers in warranty claims. However, in your specific case you made a MAJOR drivetrain modification to the car. Then, you experienced damage to your drivetrain. Are you saying that there is no way that adding 100s of HP to your car through aftermarket products had a negative effect on your stock drivetrain? Come on man.

Hate to say it, but... +1 :(

[themossman]

Originally Posted by camaropete

I completely agree that the M-M Warranty Act was put in place to protect consumers in warranty claims. However, in your specific case you made a MAJOR drivetrain modification to the car. Then, you experienced damage to your drivetrain. Are you saying that there is no way that adding 100s of HP to your car through aftermarket products had a negative effect on your stock drivetrain? Come on man.

KNOWN ISSUES... that is the difference. People are experiencing issues with parts that are known and documented by GM to have specific issues...and GM is not even attempting to diagnose or offer good faith reviews...they are just flat out voiding the warranty and telling the customer to beat it.

So...when the failure is displaying the exact same characteristics as documented, can it be completely and unequivocally attributed to the 'calibrations' that the customer applied? Come on man.

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by themossman

KNOWN ISSUES... that is the difference. People are experiencing issues with parts that are known and documented by GM to have specific issues...and GM is not even attempting to diagnose or offer good faith reviews...they are just flat out voiding the warranty and telling the customer to beat it.

So...when the failure is displaying the exact same characteristics as documented, can it be completely and unequivocally attributed to the 'calibrations' that the customer applied? Come on man.

Think about this logically. A given part (in this case the output shaft) is rated for some given performance. GM goes through extensive validation to match components for a car (engine with driveline with transmission with rearend, etc, etc). GM did note a problem with some early cars and the output shafts. They could break under certain conditions that exist on STOCK cars. I think we are clear on that. If that had happened under original stock conditions, GM would fix it.

Adding a supercharger that ups the HP significantly completely changes the drivetrain that was originally validated by GM. That may have also pushed any given component beyond its originally intended design. Did the person putting on the supercharger validate that it won't damage any of the car's original components? No. Ever wonder why? Because they didn't ever go through anything near the validation process that GM does.

So now you break a component. You did so with equipment that was never validated to work together and there is no verification that any one component wasn't pushed past its originally intended operating range. So are you saying that GM should fully investigate every incident where a component is damaged even with modified cars? How would you ever prove that it failed under "normal" conditions or failed under abnormal ones? And how much money would GM waist trying to validate claims that can't be validated anyway?

[mwt18]

Originally Posted by camaropete

I completely agree that the M-M Warranty Act was put in place to protect consumers in warranty claims. However, in your specific case you made a MAJOR drivetrain modification to the car. Then, you experienced damage to your drivetrain. Are you saying that there is no way that adding 100s of HP to your car through aftermarket products had a negative effect on your stock drivetrain? Come on man.

There is really only one way to determine what caused the failure. See this thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148924

[FASTZ2895]

Paint problems with my 2010 Camaro. The only way I found out my car was repainted on the doors and hood was by another dealership. I was going to trade my 2SS in for the CTS-V. The Cadillac dealership informed me that my car, could have been damaged. Because my car was repainted the value of my car dropped. Before this problem, I had a clutch problem. The clutch salve cable broke while driving on the highway in FL. GM refused to repair the clutch because I couldn't wait 2 weeks for the part. I'm in the Army and I'm station at FT Gordon, GA. So could wait 2 weeks for the part. I had to rent a UHaul car trailer and call my wife. To drive down with my Chevy truck to tow my brand new Camaro back to GA. I'm sick of GM customer service and this Camaro. I need GM to retroified my problem with this car. I need a new Camaro, because if GM repaint the car. I still lose, because the value of the car will drop again. What should I do?

[FL1CK]

Thanks for posting twice... I think we understood the first time.