Take a peek at the new Chevy Volt

[GTAHVIT]

^Agreed

I think total range is such an talking point because this is the first electric/hybrid car that can still travel across country. However I think the point is lost that the car will get near 60 mpg if you start with a fully charged battery then run it until the tank is empty.

The big point is that you won't have to use gas... For whatever reason the focus is on the limitation of the tank.

I think we're loosing sight of the fact that here's a car that may not use any gas, but can still go cross country at 60mpg if needed. Not the other way around.

[Angrybird 12]

I still think it needs to be able to go at least 100 miles on battery alone. I don't know about you but in my commute 40 miles won't cut it with me.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

I still think it needs to be able to go at least 100 miles on battery alone. I don't know about you but in my commute 40 miles won't cut it with me.

It won't cut it for quite a few people. But the idea behind the 40-mile range (as I'm sure you know) was a study GM conducted that found that ~80% of American families don't drive any more than 40 miles a day.

[GTAHVIT]

Ok, lets look at it this way. I drive 50 miles round trip to work a day.

In the Volt, battery drive distance is 40 miles and the 7 gallon tank is estimated to get 360 miles.

So, starting with a full tank and a full charge I will travel 400 miles at an average of 60 miles per gallon on a single tank. Assuming you don't charge the batteries every night. In other words: One battery charge per fillup. This will last 8 days and I'm only paying to fill a 7 gallon tank.

However, one tank of gas, if I charge the batteries every night, I'm really only driving 10 miles a day using gas. So the 360 mile range of the tank will last 36 days for a grand total of 1800 miles on a single tank of gas. At 257 mpg over those 36 days. Furthermore, this is assuming I drive it 50 miles everyday including weekends. Which I don't so if I only drive it Mon - Fri. a tank of gas will last even longer!!!

Currently my Mazda 3 gets 30+ mpg on a 13 gallon / 360 mile range per tank. At 50 miles per day, one tank lasts me a little more than 7 days. And I'm paying to fill a 13 gallon tank, twice that of the Volt.

So even if I don't charge the batteries every night I'm still getting double the mpg I get now. But when you do charge them every night.... How can anyone argue the benefits of this car.


I think limiting your self to a battery range without considering the total benefit of charging the battery daily is a little short sighted. IMVHO.

EDIT:

For comparison, lets go with a 100 mile commute and charge the battery every night.

Subtract the 40 miles of battery range per day, you drive only 60 miles per day on gas. The tank will last 6 days for a total of 600 miles at an average of 85 miles per gallon over the 6 days. Still far and away better then my Mazda 3 at 50 miles round trip.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Ok, lets look at it this way. I drive 50 miles round trip to work a day.

In the Volt, battery drive distance is 40 miles and the 7 gallon tank is estimated to get 360 miles.

So, starting with a full tank and a full charge I will travel 400 miles at an average of 60 miles per gallon on a single tank. Assuming you don't charge the batteries every night. In other words: One battery charge per fillup. This will last 8 days and I'm only paying to fill a 7 gallon tank.

However, one tank of gas, if I charge the batteries every night, will last me. 36 days for a grand total of 1800 miles on a single tank of gas. At 257 mpg over those 36 days. Furthermore, this is assuming I drive it 50 miles everyday including weekends. Which I don't so if I only drive it Mon - Fri. a tank of gas will last even longer!!!

Currently my Mazda 3 gets 30+ mpg on a 13 gallon / 360 mile range per tank. At 50 miles per day, one tank lasts me a little more than 7 days. And I'm paying to fill a 13 gallon tank, twice that of the Volt.

So even if I don't charge the batteries every night I'm still getting double the mpg I get now. But when you do charge them every night.... How can anyone argue the benefits of this car.

I think limiting your self to a battery range without considering the total benefit of charging the battery daily is a little short sighted. IMVHO.

That makes alot of sense, but for $40K I can buy an awul lot of gas, say $5.00 a gallon. and 30 MPG $40,000 divided by 5= 8,000 gallons Multiply that by 30 MPG equals 240,000 miles... Even if you had to buy another new car that averaged 30MPG for $20K it would take you 120,000 miles to make up the difference. (and if you count the money you still had to pay for gas and electricity in the Volt it would take even more miles to equal out.)
Is it worth it to me? no not really.
I made the same argument back in 1981 when a guy was bragging about his 40 MPG volkswagen Rabbit Diesel he paid 8K for. I compared it to my $3500 81 Chevette that got 35 MPG. I showed him how many miles he would have to drive in that slow stinking noisy car just to get his money back.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I think the Volt's value is more in principal than monetary, if you take my meaning.
Electric cars...they're actually doing this! Just like any cell phone, computer or other electronic gizmo; I would expect the price of the E-flex system to drop. And at that point; the Volt becomes much, much more sense!

But after all is said and done, after all the calculations are finished; the Volt only carries a few thousand dollar premium over a traditional car. It's just all lumped together into the intial cost...sticker shock for sure. But to be fair - it was never meant to save you money - it was meant to save you gas.

And now, for a YouTube video...

Look at that interior!!

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

That makes alot of sense, but for $40K I can buy an awul lot of gas, say $5.00 a gallon. and 30 MPG $40,000 divided by 5= 8,000 gallons Multiply that by 30 MPG equals 240,000 miles... Even if you had to buy another new car that averaged 30MPG for $20K it would take you 120,000 miles to make up the difference. (and if you count the money you still had to pay for gas and electricity in the Volt it would take even more miles to equal out.)
Is it worth it to me? no not really.
I made the same argument back in 1981 when a guy was bragging about his 40 MPG volkswagen Rabbit Diesel he paid 8K for. I compared it to my $3500 81 Chevette that got 35 MPG. I showed him how many miles he would have to drive in that slow stinking noisy car just to get his money back.

I think I follow your numbers but I'm not quite sure.

Lets talk monthly payment and monthly gas bill.

25k car 30 mpg 50 mile commute

5 year payment 500, gas bill 200. average 700 per month.

Volt. 40K (Guess?) 50 mile commute
Same loan as above = 800 payment, gas bill 20. Average 820 per month.

So, if you bought both cars on the same day, over 60 months/5yrs, you'd pay 7200 more for the volt. With a difference of 180 per month in gas it would take you another 3.3 years/40 months to break even.

So, if you have a low cost car that gets 30 or so mpg. The Volt isn't a good option if you drive over 40 miles a day.

Obviously if you are looking at cars in the same price range, the Volt wins hands down. No contest. With my Mazda 3 being paid off. I can't justify it. Now the Tahoe on the other hand.......

Edit:

Also, we don't know what the Volt's price will be so this is speculation. It's a tall order to put a 40K car against a 25k car and expect it to be more affordable in the long run.

[G8GT4now]

Originally Posted by theholycow

There's not enough labels on that picture. I wonder if it's the electric car that could save GM...

I don't know why, but that sarcasm made me giggle.



Hey, where did theholycow's picture go?? Without it my post makes no sense.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I think the Volt's value is more in principal than monetary, if you take my meaning.
Electric cars...they're actually doing this! Just like any cell phone, computer or other electronic gizmo; I would expect the price of the E-flex system to drop. And at that point; the Volt becomes much, much more sense!

But after all is said and done, after all the calculations are finished; the Volt only carries a few thousand dollar premium over a traditional car. It's just all lumped together into the intial cost...sticker shock for sure. But to be fair - it was never meant to save you money - it was meant to save you gas.

And now, for a YouTube video...

Look at that interior!!

My point is most people are looking at the bottom line, and trying to justify purchasing a Volt just because it's trendy or to save the planet will not work for most people..
Untill you can get the cost for purchase to a reasonable level then it will not be a viable option for most people.
and unless you can sell electric cars in mass quanities the gas they save will be a drop in the bucket...

Remember, Obama says inflate your tires and we won't have an oil problem.....

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

Untill you can get the cost for purchase to a reasonable level then it will not be a viable option for most people.
and unless you can sell electric cars in mass quanities the gas they save will be a drop in the bucket...

Just like the other conversation we were having about alt. fuels...it's going to take some time. I'm just glad that GM's the first to start down this path.

[PA FAST]

Originally Posted by Eisenhower

EKK! That's ugly... Looks like something Saturn vomited. Concept looks better.

It was proven by wind tunnel test that the concept Volt was about as aerodynamic as a brick. So they couldn't keep to the concept. I know the current Volt isn't as beautiful as the concept but it still looks far better than the Prius. I just hope GM puts the E-Flex into a larger vehicle soon, because the Volt will only have as much interior room as a present day Cobalt.

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

That makes alot of sense, but for $40K I can buy an awul lot of gas, say $5.00 a gallon. and 30 MPG $40,000 divided by 5= 8,000 gallons Multiply that by 30 MPG equals 240,000 miles... Even if you had to buy another new car that averaged 30MPG for $20K it would take you 120,000 miles to make up the difference. (and if you count the money you still had to pay for gas and electricity in the Volt it would take even more miles to equal out.)
Is it worth it to me? no not really.
I made the same argument back in 1981 when a guy was bragging about his 40 MPG volkswagen Rabbit Diesel he paid 8K for. I compared it to my $3500 81 Chevette that got 35 MPG. I showed him how many miles he would have to drive in that slow stinking noisy car just to get his money back.

The same can be said about the Prius, granted it cost less than a Volt by a considerable amount. However, if you remove the hybrid system from that car you would have a $15k vehicle, which is basically a Toyota Corolla. As we know this vehicle gets in the upper 30's MPG which isn't too far off from the Prius. I think the last time I checked a base Prius cost $22k-$24k, so that $7k-$9k would buy you years worth of gas also.

Still though tons of people are buying the Prius, so I think enough people will buy the Volt. Then you have the government rebates which will bring the price down to the low $30k's, so at that point the Volt will probably only cost a bit more than a fully loaded Prius which comes to around $30k. I would expect at this price for the Volt to come with the same options the Prius has, but standard.

In time the price of the Volt will come down, especially since they will sell a Opel version of the Volt in Europe where people don't mind spending this kind of money on a small, fuel efficient car.

JMHO, I am no expert, but thats how I see it.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

My point is most people are looking at the bottom line, and trying to justify purchasing a Volt just because it's trendy or to save the planet will not work for most people..
Untill you can get the cost for purchase to a reasonable level then it will not be a viable option for most people.
and unless you can sell electric cars in mass quanities the gas they save will be a drop in the bucket...

Remember, Obama says inflate your tires and we won't have an oil problem.....

If people were only concerned about the bottom line, nobody would have bought the prius.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If people were only concerned about the bottom line, nobody would have bought the prius.

Nope, some people will buy anything as long as it says "Toyota" on it.... like they said in the MSNBC show, People bought millions of Corollas but only a few thousand of the sister Chevy Nova/Prizm.. same car different name... Same with the Matrix/Vibe, people buy Lots of Matrix but not many of the Vibe..
I bet the same would hold true for the Volt, If it was a Toyota, people will buy millions of them, but since it will say Chevy it will probably not go over.. Sad but true.
Another thing, many people that buy the prius are snobbish and want everyone to think they are the ones that are going to save the planet. I have even had them give me dirty looks when I am driving my El Camino...

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Exactly!
It's not meant to be primarily driven off the gas in the tank; so unless you go on extended road trips often; it's total range shouldn't mean anything to you. It's supposed to be charged up every night and driven ~40 miles during the day.

If you want to get into semantics: it could be argued that the car has an unlimited range. If you fill up the tank, and drive 40 miles a day/charge it every night -- you'll never empty that tank. So the car can go "Infinity" on a single tank of gas.

I have yet to understand why total range is so important, it's not what this car is about..................

Well range is important to me as I like being able to drive from the LA area to my wife's family's house in Sacramento (400ish miles) with room for error without having to stop for gas. But I would agree, range is given way more weight than it deserves, and too many people, including car mags, confuse it for efficiency.