L99 Theory, Gas Guzzler Tax - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

pruettfan · 07-21-2008, 10:02 PM

After reading the newly released info I think that the reason GM went with the L99 which is a detuned LS3 is for the gas mileage and so that the automatic would not be subject to the gas guzzler tax. If so I aplaud GM. Having paid the gas guzzler tax in the past it really sucks to pay an extra 2k to the IRS.

*The_Blur* · 07-21-2008, 10:09 PM

According to the fine print, both V8s get 23 mpg on the highway. I think that GM had too much trouble equipping the LS3 with AFM and VVT.

marticus24 · 07-21-2008, 10:10 PM

So if the M6 LS3 gets 23MPG, will it have to pay the gas guzzler tax? Sorry, haven't read up on it.

pruettfan · 07-21-2008, 10:16 PM

23 mpg won't pay GG tax but I believe the LS3 with an auto without the AFM and VVT would get less therefore would be subject to the GG tax. I know that my GTO was an auto and I had to pay almost 2k in GG tax. Since they are competing with the Mustang it is clear than the extra 2k would hurt sales.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 07-21-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pruettfan

but I believe the LS3 with an auto without the AFM and VVT would get less therefore would be subject to the GG tax.

Good thing that combination doesn't exist then, huh?

BergerSSno81 · 07-22-2008, 08:11 AM

strange that the corvette gets 25 hwy with the ls3 auto tho...is the camaro that heavy?

*Mr. Wyndham* · 07-22-2008, 12:03 PM

highway fuel economy has little to do with weight. It owes itself almost entirely to aerodynamics. And the Corvette is an VERY slippery car. Whereas the Camaro actually has a face.

Oh, and the fuel economy estimates are just that: GM estimates.

Txturbo · 07-22-2008, 12:05 PM

In one of the chats this morning someone asked why his 4th gen gets 30mpg on the highway and the 5th gen will only get 23. The reply was, if you get 30 now, you will get better with a 5th gen.

Chogan2200 · 07-22-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

highway fuel economy has little to do with weight. It owes itself almost entirely to aerodynamics. And the Corvette is an VERY slippery car. Whereas the Camaro actually has a face.

Oh, and the fuel economy estimates are just that: GM estimates.

don't forget paint color! I can't remember if its Black cars or White cars but one of them gets the worst gas mileage. I want to say it's black because black absorbs so much heat but then again, doesn't heat rise?

Warghost · 07-22-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chogan2200

don't forget paint color! I can't remember if its Black cars or White cars but one of them gets the worst gas mileage. I want to say it's black because black absorbs so much heat but then again, doesn't heat rise?

Black actually allows better gas mileage, but it's not even noticeable. Black gets hotter, which repels air and creates somewhat of an air cushion around the car, creating less drag.

LSxcellent · 07-22-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pruettfan

After reading the newly released info I think that the reason GM went with the L99 which is a detuned LS3 is for the gas mileage and so that the automatic would not be subject to the gas guzzler tax. If so I aplaud GM. Having paid the gas guzzler tax in the past it really sucks to pay an extra 2k to the IRS.

I'd disagree...

The L99 IS essentially an LS3, it just has the AFM.

They use the LS3 with the manual because AFM doesn't work with a manual tranny... it needs to communicate with the transmission to work properly (to sense load and gear).

I'm sure GM *WOULD* use AFM on the LS3 if they could, but right now it doesn't work.

Also, the L99 is limited to a lower RPM (again because of the AFM system), and therefore it makes less power.

~LSx

theholycow · 07-22-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txturbo

In one of the chats this morning someone asked why his 4th gen gets 30mpg on the highway and the 5th gen will only get 23. The reply was, if you get 30 now, you will get better with a 5th gen.

EPA ratings (new style, same test procedure as they'll use on the 2010 model) from fueleconomy.gov:
2002 V6 17/28AT 17/29MT
2002 V8 16/23AT 17/26MT

From the PDF: AT highway numbers only -- V6 26, V8 23

If the EPA rating is less, there's no reason to expect you'll get more. The EPA might not predict accurately what YOU will get, but it does predict accurately the difference between one car and the next for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chogan2200

don't forget paint color! I can't remember if its Black cars or White cars but one of them gets the worst gas mileage. I want to say it's black because black absorbs so much heat but then again, doesn't heat rise?

No. Cold air sinks, displacing the warmer air upwards, if there's no other movement; but it doesn't apply to anything we're talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warghost

Black actually allows better gas mileage, but it's not even noticeable. Black gets hotter, which repels air and creates somewhat of an air cushion around the car, creating less drag.

Could also be due to intake air temperature. Warmer intake air doesn't produce as much power but it does produce better fuel economy. Depending on where the airbox draws from it might get warm air -- my GMC pickup draws air from the fender area and I suspect that a black truck would get better mileage on sunny days.

RCowan · 07-22-2008, 01:06 PM

The only difference besides the AFM might be a slightly different cam and of course, tune. Those are both easily corrected.

Anyway, if you do nothing to it except put in an aggressive stall you should be able to make a solid 12sec car out of the pig.

07-21-2008, 10:02 PM	#1
pruettfan Drives: 2010 Camaro SS / 2011 Z28 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 333	L99 Theory, Gas Guzzler Tax After reading the newly released info I think that the reason GM went with the L99 which is a detuned LS3 is for the gas mileage and so that the automatic would not be subject to the gas guzzler tax. If so I aplaud GM. Having paid the gas guzzler tax in the past it really sucks to pay an extra 2k to the IRS.

07-21-2008, 10:09 PM	#2
The_Blur Moderator Drives: 2018 Harley-Davidson Street Bob Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 14,769	According to the fine print, both V8s get 23 mpg on the highway. I think that GM had too much trouble equipping the LS3 with AFM and VVT. __________________ RDP Motorsport//GEN5DIY//Cultrag Performance//JPSS//Rodgets Chevrolet// Operation Demon//Buy at Invoice//RACECARWEAR RESPECT ALL CARS. LOVE YOUR OWN. warn 145:159 ban

07-22-2008, 12:03 PM	#7
Mr. Wyndham I used to be Dragoneye... Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 31,876 View My Garage	highway fuel economy has little to do with weight. It owes itself almost entirely to aerodynamics. And the Corvette is an VERY slippery car. Whereas the Camaro actually has a face. Oh, and the fuel economy estimates are just that: GM estimates. __________________ *"Keep the faith."* - Fbodfather

07-22-2008, 12:05 PM	#8
Txturbo Keeper of the Faith Drives: 2001 Z28 Agressively Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Rosenberg,Texas Posts: 1,383 View My Garage	In one of the chats this morning someone asked why his 4th gen gets 30mpg on the highway and the 5th gen will only get 23. The reply was, if you get 30 now, you will get better with a 5th gen. __________________ 2010 Camaro SS R6P 2001 Camaro Z28 1969 Camaro SS clone

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07-21-2008, 10:10 PM	#3
marticus24 Drives: 2012 ZL1 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 604	So if the M6 LS3 gets 23MPG, will it have to pay the gas guzzler tax? Sorry, haven't read up on it.

07-21-2008, 10:16 PM	#4
pruettfan Drives: 2010 Camaro SS / 2011 Z28 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 333	23 mpg won't pay GG tax but I believe the LS3 with an auto without the AFM and VVT would get less therefore would be subject to the GG tax. I know that my GTO was an auto and I had to pay almost 2k in GG tax. Since they are competing with the Mustang it is clear than the extra 2k would hurt sales.

07-22-2008, 08:11 AM	#6
BergerSSno81 Drives: 2002 Berger SS Phase 2 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ct Posts: 5	strange that the corvette gets 25 hwy with the ls3 auto tho...is the camaro that heavy?

07-22-2008, 01:06 PM	#13
RCowan Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Join Date: May 2008 Location: H-town Posts: 156	The only difference besides the AFM might be a slightly different cam and of course, tune. Those are both easily corrected. Anyway, if you do nothing to it except put in an aggressive stall you should be able to make a solid 12sec car out of the pig.