Camaro ZL1 video clips of engine / exhaust revving - from Camaro5Fest II

[radz28]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Has GM announced a target price for the vehicle? I haven't seen or heard anything other than from someone that works at a dealership and they said (here in Canada) there will be a premium and it was enough to make me ROTFL.
But, again remember here in Canada we get shafted all the time because companies like GM figure they'll only allow a certain amount into the market creating a price war for anyone who wants to buy that particular product (even when they're made right here in Oshawa, Ontario). So, the dealers take advantage of it and price gouge the consumer. Case and point Corvettes. Way, way, way overpriced.

Yeah - I'm sorry for you guys up there, because that really stinks. It's not like the car's coming overseas or something I believe the closest thing we've got to chew on since introduction has only been what it's performance targets are (GT500). I don't know that it's unreasonable to suggest the price target will follow suit, however, I got nothing to support that. I swear I've read ZL1 won't get into 'Vette territory from one of our beloved GM employees, however, I don't remember who, and exactly what was said :bangdesk:. I only have speculation.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Agreed. I'm with you 100%.
In my opinion many folks will purchase the ZL1 (for a premium), drive it off the lot, and realize huge dissapointment.
Personally, I'm more impressed with the mod'd SS's I've seen.

I doubt that I will be disappointed at all with my ZL1 (for no more than MSRP).

I also doubt that many individuals will be able to build an SS that performs all around better than, and is as reliable as, a ZL1 for less money than a ZL1. Also, the ZL1 will come with high performance, hundreds of thousands of miles of validation, and a factory warranty.

It's awesome if people want to modify their SS's and have great performing vehicles, but it will be difficult to achieve the same performance, reliability, and value that a ZL1 will offer at the same price.

[Rocky918]

Originally Posted by radz28

I swear I've read ZL1 won't get into 'Vette territory from one of our beloved GM employees, however, I don't remember who, and exactly what was said :bangdesk:. I only have speculation.

the zl1 wont be in vette territory in terms of what? overall performance? ... because as of now it looks like the zl1 will beat the base vet in straight line raw power ... but lose in most else

[OldJedi]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Agreed. I'm with you 100%.
In my opinion many folks will purchase the ZL1 (for a premium), drive it off the lot, and realize huge dissapointment.
Personally, I'm more impressed with the mod'd SS's I've seen.

I am not exactly sure why you would say that, but I really have to disagree with you. I think that the ZL1 owners will be some of the happiest Camaro owners in the world. Besides owning something special from the factory with a good warranty, the car will be the most technically advanced Camaro ever built, period. Outstanding horsepower, massive Brembo brakes, lightweight forged wheels, huge tires, Magnetic Shocks, HUD, Launch Control, short throw shifter, heavy duty drive line and on and on. The only thing that this car DOES NOT come with is a center fold model to fulfill your wettest dream. I do not know what you expect to get from a car but I know this ZL1 will fulfill my wettest dreams for years to come. NO, I don't think that there will ANY disappointed ZL1 owners at all, no matter what they pay for the car. But they will be easy to spot, they will be the one's wearing a PERMAGRIN.

[camarocolin]

doug thorley headers, slp full blackwing CAI, an tune on my L99 429rwhp 421rwtq 12.57 1/4 mile at 111.9

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

.... is as reliable as, a ZL1 for less money than a ZL1.

It's really the reliability and value the ZL1 will offer versus an aftermarket-ed SS. That's not appealing to everyone, though - and I can get that.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I doubt that I will be disappointed at all with my ZL1 (for no more than MSRP).

I also doubt that many individuals will be able to build an SS that performs all around better than, and is as reliable as, a ZL1 for less money than a ZL1. Also, the ZL1 will come with high performance, hundreds of thousands of miles of validation, and a factory warranty.

It's awesome if people want to modify their SS's and have great performing vehicles, but it will be difficult to achieve the same performance, reliability, and value that a ZL1 will offer at the same price.

I don't agree. Read some of the magazine reviews regarding Lingenfelters, SLP's, and other aftermarket SS's. Implying mod'd SS's cannot perform as reliable with value as a ZL1 assumes the performance industry skills and superior aftermarket products used are not equivalent to those of an assembly line worker is rediculous.

Originally Posted by OldJedi

I am not exactly sure why you would say that, but I really have to disagree with you. I think that the ZL1 owners will be some of the happiest Camaro owners in the world. Besides owning something special from the factory with a good warranty, the car will be the most technically advanced Camaro ever built, period. Outstanding horsepower, massive Brembo brakes, lightweight forged wheels, huge tires, Magnetic Shocks, HUD, Launch Control, short throw shifter, heavy duty drive line and on and on. The only thing that this car DOES NOT come with is a center fold model to fulfill your wettest dream. I do not know what you expect to get from a car but I know this ZL1 will fulfill my wettest dreams for years to come. NO, I don't think that there will ANY disappointed ZL1 owners at all, no matter what they pay for the car. But they will be easy to spot, they will be the one's wearing a PERMAGRIN.

As are lot's of Camaro owners without a ZL1, and 800hp's under the hood. I don't know about the wet dreams though. But, I'm sure you'll have some who are happy with the ZL1, and many who will be less than pleased and will start mod'ing the shit out of it.
Mark my words; The first thing most will do is bring it to a shop and get a proper tune (for sure). Once I look at one in preson I'll know what the other changes will be but I already have an idea. Because if they are going to compete with the GT500, the price will have to be similar which means parts won't be the greatest.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

I don't agree. Read some of the magazine reviews regarding Lingenfelters, SLP's, and other aftermarket SS's. Implying mod'd SS's cannot perform as reliable with value as a ZL1 assumes the performance industry skills and superior aftermarket products used are not equivalent to those of an assembly line worker is rediculous.

The aftermarket companies...many times...do not meet GM standards. So...it's not all that ridiculous to say that a modified SS won't last as long as a ZL1 under the same conditions.

That's not to say they're grenades waiting to go off....but they're not developed with the same sky-high benchmarks as a factory vehicle. And I'm unaware of any aftermarket company offering a 5yr/100,000mile warranty on their packages.

[trucker north]

Supercharger with in reasonable price range and the same or better performance ?

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The aftermarket companies...many times...do not meet GM standards. So...it's not all that ridiculous to say that a modified SS won't last as long as a ZL1 under the same conditions.

That's not to say they're grenades waiting to go off....but they're not developed with the same sky-high benchmarks as a factory vehicle. And I'm unaware of any aftermarket company offering a 5yr/100,000mile warranty on their packages.

GM has great high standards for broken control arms, weak end-links, bendable sway bars, defective clutches, shredded drive shafts, exploding differentials, chicken bone axles, defective oil pumps. Have you read the threads lately? Must I go on?
So, all the mod'd SS guys are just a bunch of crazy dudes that want to spend money replacing the GM high standard parts, with low standard aftermarket parts that exceed performance and capacity of the OEM parts and lose their warranties in the process? Okay, whatever you say.

I will admit the LS3 is a great engine, but besides that and the actual frame and body of the Camaro as far as I'm concerned the rest is all junk and needs to be replaced with the best aftermarket parts that don't meet GM's low standards.

If that's the GM plan for the ZL1 then it will be a fabulous product, if they plan on using the GM junk then you'll need the warranty when you spend your weekends in the GM service department because you broke something when you did a little sprited driving on your way to the grocery store.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Rocky918

the zl1 wont be in vette territory in terms of what? overall performance? ... because as of now it looks like the zl1 will beat the base vet in straight line raw power ... but lose in most else

I don't know... I believe ZL1 will come with better tires than that of the base 'Vette, and with MR and the new '12 suspension tweaks, I think ZL1 will probably do very favorably against a base 'Vette; dare I say it may give a "base" Z06 owner something to seriously think about.

Originally Posted by calbert1999

I don't agree. Read some of the magazine reviews regarding Lingenfelters, SLP's, and other aftermarket SS's. Implying mod'd SS's cannot perform as reliable with value as a ZL1 assumes the performance industry skills and superior aftermarket products used are not equivalent to those of an assembly line worker is rediculous.

As are lot's of Camaro owners without a ZL1, and 800hp's under the hood. I don't know about the wet dreams though. But, I'm sure you'll have some who are happy with the ZL1, and many who will be less than pleased and will start mod'ing the shit out of it.
Mark my words; The first thing most will do is bring it to a shop and get a proper tune (for sure). Once I look at one in preson I'll know what the other changes will be but I already have an idea. Because if they are going to compete with the GT500, the price will have to be similar which means parts won't be the greatest.

Yeah - and many of those cars don't come with the rest of the powertrain and chassis upgrades ZL1 will come with standard. I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable build and compare the value and performance to ZL1 once they are released into the wild.

I do agree, though, that there are going to be some tuning that some people will want to do in the PCM. There goes the warranty on many things-powertrain related, but that's a risk many are willing to take.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The aftermarket companies...many times...do not meet GM standards. So...it's not all that ridiculous to say that a modified SS won't last as long as a ZL1 under the same conditions.

That's not to say they're grenades waiting to go off....but they're not developed with the same sky-high benchmarks as a factory vehicle. And I'm unaware of any aftermarket company offering a 5yr/100,000mile warranty on their packages.

KUDOS!!! ^^^Post of the Day.^^^

Originally Posted by calbert1999

GM has great high standards for broken control arms, weak end-links, bendable sway bars, defective clutches, shredded drive shafts, exploding differentials, chicken bone axles, defective oil pumps. Have you read the threads lately? Must I go on?
So, all the mod'd SS guys are just a bunch of crazy dudes that want to spend money replacing the GM high standard parts, with low standard aftermarket parts that exceed performance and capacity of the OEM parts and lose their warranties in the process? Okay, whatever you say.

I will admit the LS3 is a great engine, but besides that and the actual frame and body of the Camaro as far as I'm concerned the rest is all junk and needs to be replaced with the best aftermarket parts that don't meet GM's low standards.

If that's the GM plan for the ZL1 then it will be a fabulous product, if they plan on using the GM junk then you'll need the warranty when you spend your weekends in the GM service department because you broke something when you did a little sprited driving on your way to the grocery store.

The more posts I read from you, the more I either think you like stirring the pot, are a troll, or are just plain unhappy with CAMARO. Either way, if you hate so much of CAMARO, perhaps you would consider spending time in a community that shares your views, because, honestly, all your negativity is starting to wear on me. My enthusiasm for everything could be seen as blind faith, however, it is optimism and a feeling from my gutt that we're getting the best possible car for the best possible price, and then some (and that goes for the ENTIRE CAMARO line-up). It's one thing to express opinions and thoughts, but when it seems like most of the posts I read (and I don't see all of them) are nothing but dark and full of a bunch of put-downs, a flag raises for me. Either post something constructive, or don't post. This last quoted post really puts you in a different light for me.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

GM has great high standards for broken control arms, weak end-links, bendable sway bars, defective clutches, shredded drive shafts, exploding differentials, chicken bone axles, defective oil pumps. Have you read the threads lately? Must I go on?

Are you referring to parts that failed under use for which they were designed? And, are you referring to parts on SS's or on the ZL1?

Originally Posted by calbert1999

So, all the mod'd SS guys are just a bunch of crazy dudes that want to spend money replacing the GM high standard parts, with low standard aftermarket parts that exceed performance and capacity of the OEM parts and lose their warranties in the process? Okay, whatever you say.

I don't think that anyone stated that "mod'd SS guys" are crazy or that that all after market parts are low standard parts.

Originally Posted by calbert1999

If that's the GM plan for the ZL1 then it will be a fabulous product, if they plan on using the GM junk then you'll need the warranty when you spend your weekends in the GM service department because you broke something when you did a little sprited driving on your way to the grocery store.

The ZL1 will use parts that are designed for its application.

I'm not sure that you understand the design, verification, and validation processes.

Each product generally has the following requirements documents: a use case document and a marketing requirements specification which are at the top level of the document tree, and below them is a product requirements specification, and below it are a system hardware requirements specification and a system software requirements specification, and below them, respectively, are individual hardware module requirements specifications and individual software module requirements specifications. Generally, each of the individual module specifications has associated detailed design documents describing how the particular design is implemented.

All of the requirements must have traceability (often companies will use IBM's Rational RUP (Rational Unified Process) tool suite which includes RequisitePro to manage their requirements), that is, there can be no childless requirements and no orphaned requirements from the marketing specification down to the individual hardware and software requirement docuements.

A typical marketing specification requirement might be something such as "The vehicle shall be capable of transversing a quarter mile from a standing start in less than 12.00 seconds." Another typical marketing specification requirement might be "The vehicle shall have a curb weight of less than 4,100 pounds." A typical product specification requirement might be something such as "The vehicle engine shall be capable of outputting at least 550 pound-feet of torque." A typical engine hardware specification requirement might be something such as "The engine shall be capable of sustaining at least 6500 revolutions per minute for at least 10 consecutive hours with less than a 1 percent drop in horsepower output." A typical engine software specification requirement might be something such as "The engine control module software shall be capable of sampling the air mass flow rate from the mass air flow sensor at a rate of at least 100 times per second." Etc., etc., etc.

Reviews are held for each document and the requirements are reviewed before the document is released and the design is implemented.

The design is often performed using an iterative development process, where the highest risk items are addressed first, and where each design requirement must be verified that it has been satisfied. Design reviews are held for each for each portion of the design to ensure that the design implementation meets its requirements. Anytime that a requirement or design is changed all associated requirements to which it traces must be examined and, if necessary, updated accordingly, and verified again. This iterative development process continues until the design is complete.

When the design is complete and all of the product requirements have successfully passed their verification test protocols, validation is performed. Validation consists of a series of protocols which the product is put through that provide a high degree of assurance that the product will perform as a unit as it is intended to perform when it is put into use by the end user. If any test fails, the defect is noted and corrected and the tests are run again, and the process continues until all tests pass.

After a product has successfully completed verification and validation, it is then ready for product release and production.

The ZL1 will have gone through a similar process with a team of marketing people, design and development engineers, quality assurance engineers, and verification and validation testers before it will be ready for production. That is one of the reasons why it will come with a warranty.

The ZL1 will be designed to work as a unit, and the parts that will be used will have been tested, verified and validated that they work together on the vehicle as intended. That is a different process from taking after market parts from different vendors and putting them on a vehicle. That's not so say that one can't build a reliable performance vehicle with after market parts, it's just that it can be expensive and one must be careful and be aware that making a change in one area may affect other areas, and that it one hasn't done adequate research, negative consequences may occur.

I know enough to know that I don't know everything that I need to know to build a reliable high performance vehicle equal to the ZL1's performance that won't cost significantly more than the ZL1 will cost.

[Civilian]

Originally Posted by OldJedi

The only thing that this car DOES NOT come with is a center fold model to fulfill your wettest dream.

It might not come with one but I am sure it will help in finding one.
The Zl1 seems to be including most of the things I'd like to mod on an SS.
I just hope they have a couple of more little surprises left to show.
Better seats with more lateral support might be needed with the improved suspension. I's also like to see some sort of "signature" driving light pattern with the new technology available.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Are you referring to parts that failed under use for which they were designed? And, are you referring to parts on SS's or on the ZL1?

I don't think that anyone stated that "mod'd SS guys" are crazy or that that all after market parts are low standard parts.

The ZL1 will use parts that are designed for its application.

I'm not sure that you understand the design, verification, and validation processes.

Each product generally has the following requirements documents: a use case document and a marketing requirements specification which are at the top level of the document tree, and below them is a product requirements specification, and below it are a system hardware requirements specification and a system software requirements specification, and below them, respectively, are individual hardware module requirements specifications and individual software module requirements specifications. Generally, each of the individual module specifications has associated detailed design documents describing how the particular design is implemented.

All of the requirements must have traceability (often companies will use IBM's Rational RUP (Rational Unified Process) tool suite which includes RequisitePro to manage their requirements), that is, there can be no childless requirements and no orphaned requirements from the marketing specification down to the individual hardware and software requirement docuements.

A typical marketing specification requirement might be something such as "The vehicle shall be capable of transversing a quarter mile from a standing start in less than 12.00 seconds." Another typical marketing specification requirement might be "The vehicle shall have a curb weight of less than 4,100 pounds." A typical product specification requirement might be something such as "The vehicle engine shall be capable of outputting at least 550 pound-feet of torque." A typical engine hardware specification requirement might be something such as "The engine shall be capable of sustaining at least 6500 revolutions per minute for at least 10 consecutive hours with less than a 1 percent drop in horsepower output." A typical engine software specification requirement might be something such as "The engine control module software shall be capable of sampling the air mass flow rate from the mass air flow sensor at a rate of at least 100 times per second." Etc., etc., etc.

Reviews are held for each document and the requirements are reviewed before the document is released and the design is implemented.

The design is often performed using an iterative development process, where the highest risk items are addressed first, and where each design requirement must be verified that it has been satisfied. Design reviews are held for each for each portion of the design to ensure that the design implementation meets its requirements. Anytime that a requirement or design is changed all associated requirements to which it traces must be examined and, if necessary, updated accordingly, and verified again. This iterative development process continues until the design is complete.

When the design is complete and all of the product requirements have successfully passed their verification test protocols, validation is performed. Validation consists of a series of protocols which the product is put through that provide a high degree of assurance that the product will perform as a unit as it is intended to perform when it is put into use by the end user. If any test fails, the defect is noted and corrected and the tests are run again, and the process continues until all tests pass.

After a product has successfully completed verification and validation, it is then ready for product release and production.

The ZL1 will have gone through a similar process with a team of marketing people, design and development engineers, quality assurance engineers, and verification and validation testers before it will be ready for production. That is one of the reasons why it will come with a warranty.

The ZL1 will be designed to work as a unit, and the parts that will be used will have been tested, verified and validated that they work together on the vehicle as intended. That is a different process from taking after market parts from different vendors and putting them on a vehicle. That's not so say that one can't build a reliable performance vehicle with after market parts, it's just that it can be expensive and one must be careful and be aware that making a change in one area may affect other areas, and that it one hasn't done adequate research, negative consequences may occur.

I know enough to know that I don't know everything that I need to know to build a reliable high performance vehicle equal to the ZL1's performance that won't cost significantly more than the ZL1 will cost.

Umm... Even if I were intellegent and well-informed enough to post something like this, it would've taken about a year, LOL!!! KUDOS!!! And to put in into something intellegable even enables a dummy like me to almost understand it

As far as your comments that I've highlighted: Perhaps he knows how to do this I know I don't. And I know I don't have the resources, and know that GM does. I would still challenge someone to put together a build plan that would offer similar performance for the same money and durability.

Excellent post.

Originally Posted by Civilian

It might not come with one but I am sure it will help in finding one.
The Zl1 seems to be including most of the things I'd like to mod on an SS.
I just hope they have a couple of more little surprises left to show.
Better seats with more lateral support might be needed with the improved suspension. I's also like to see some sort of "signature" driving light pattern with the new technology available.

Shoot - I won't need models!

I feel very similar to the way you do. Considering the revisions, let alone additional technologies they've announced so far, I really don't know that there is going to be a better value from just about anywhere. I hope, though, that like the rear swaybar changes, more technology trickles down to SS, because while I want ZL1 to be at the top of the heap, I want SS (and Z28) to be at the top of their respective segments, too. I'm sure GM will give us some more goodies when it's time to start taking orders, and can't wait for that day.

I believe that the suede inserts may be one of the features that will address your concerns about the seats. The overall look of the seats doesn't appear to have changed much beyond that (well - the passenger's side is now going to be full electric, but I'm talking about performance oriented features). Having rode in only a couple, I think they're pretty good and the added grip of the suede will be a nice complement, functionally.

I think it was a mistake, but Al O. (and someone else, I think) said the headlights AND fog lights would be HIDs (we already know HIDs are options on CAMARO). HID fog lights don't make sense, to me, but I'll take 'em. It'd be nice to have some functional LED driving or fog lights, though. If they aren't functional, I'll look at our sponsors for what I have in mind