Dropping the oil pan to remove oil pump, any tips?

[robertway]

Looking for any tips on doing this, already loosened all the oil pan bolts I can see but the pan doesn't seem to want to drop at all in the front, does it take some shots on the front edge to break it free from the seal?

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Updated on 01-18-2011 with video of how to drop the pan, thanks to everyone in the thread for their help;

[Irnwkrkev]

If you take out the two horizontal bolts from the bellhousing to the pan (15mm socket I think) it should lower down, might need a couple of smacks to drop. I had my timing cover off when I lowered mine. If you have the car on ramps up front but sitting on the back tires you'll lose a little bit of oil out the back but less than a quart. You can drop the bolts about an 3/4 of an inch with the length of the bolts and you'll have to drop them all, not like an old tin pan from the 60's. The oil pick-up tube is a bitch... I had to pry mine down after getting the bolt out. A tiny 10mm wrech is needed to get the bolt out.

[BlownSS]

why are you digging it out?

[robertway]

Originally Posted by Irnwkrkev

If you take out the two horizontal bolts from the bellhousing to the pan (15mm socket I think) it should lower down, might need a couple of smacks to drop. I had my timing cover off when I lowered mine. If you have the car on ramps up front but sitting on the back tires you'll lose a little bit of oil out the back but less than a quart. You can drop the bolts about an 3/4 of an inch with the length of the bolts and you'll have to drop them all, not like an old tin pan from the 60's. The oil pick-up tube is a bitch... I had to pry mine down after getting the bolt out. A tiny 10mm wrech is needed to get the bolt out.

Thanks, those are the two bolts I am missing then. I have the car up on jackstands and it is level but I also have drained all the oil already, not because I was dropping the pan but I am in the middle of a cam swap and was due for the oil change anyway. I am not looking forward to the pickup tube bolt

Originally Posted by BlownSS

why are you digging it out?

cam swap, need to get the oil pump off to change the timing chain to a C5R.

[Sack Rat 2SS]

:



cam swap, need to get the oil pump off to change the timing chain to a C5R.[/QUOTE]

Well not to change timing chain but to replace 1 bolt cam tensioner with the correct dampner for the 3 bolt cam replacement. You must REMOVE oil pump to change to tensioner to dampner. The lowering of the pan is to gain access to the one bolt holding the oil pickup tube to the pumpl. You can reuse the timing chain. Is this what you are doing "robertway"??????

[Irnwkrkev]

A trick I had used, that I had read about, was to snug the bolts of the pump when you re-install it and spin the crank over a few times to get it positioned properly. Then torque it and then re-install the oil pump pick up tube. Another trick if you're installing an u/d pulley is to take your original pulley and use a flapper wheel on an end grinder or drill motor and open up the inside a little so you can slide it on easily to use it as a tool to install your front cover w/ front seal. You can cut the three arms on the pulley so it's alot smaller and you can get to all the bolts around the cover easily. A sawzall cut through the cast iron like butter, just smooth the edges after the cut so it's not so damn sharp.

[robertway]

Originally Posted by Sack Rat 2SS

:



"cam swap, need to get the oil pump off to change the timing chain to a C5R"

Well not to change timing chain but to replace 1 bolt cam tensioner with the correct dampner for the 3 bolt cam replacement. You must REMOVE oil pump to change to tensioner to dampner. The lowering of the pan is to gain access to the one bolt holding the oil pickup tube to the pumpl. You can reuse the timing chain. Is this what you are doing "robertway"??????

I am not reusing the stock timing chain, replacing it with a Katech C5R, like you mention I am dropping the pan to get access to that pickup tube bolt so I can take the oil pump off. As for the tensioner/dampener decision, I am still on the fence. I have seen Andy from ADM's post which you were a part of that spoke to falling back to the dampener and I fully respect Andy's take on the setup but at the same time I am dealing with the guys at East Coast Supercharging here in Jersey for all my parts and tuning and Chris down at ECS didn't mention anything about the tensioner and I have full faith in those guys as they have been blowing LS3 Vettes out the door for a few years now and their reputation stands on it own two feet to the extent of my knowledge. I am waiting to hear back from ECS on this to determine which way to go while everything is still opened up but I am assuminbg since it wasn't mentioned when I picked up my parts yesterday they haven't experience anything that have them replace the tensioner but I'll wait for them to tell me that.

Originally Posted by Irnwkrkev

A trick I had used, that I had read about, was to snug the bolts of the pump when you re-install it and spin the crank over a few times to get it positioned properly. Then torque it and then re-install the oil pump pick up tube. Another trick if you're installing an u/d pulley is to take your original pulley and use a flapper wheel on an end grinder or drill motor and open up the inside a little so you can slide it on easily to use it as a tool to install your front cover w/ front seal. You can cut the three arms on the pulley so it's alot smaller and you can get to all the bolts around the cover easily. A sawzall cut through the cast iron like butter, just smooth the edges after the cut so it's not so damn sharp.

That is a good tip for aligning the pump and I will use that, as for the pulley, I am not installing an UD pulley as I will eventually be putting a centri blower on the car. I will probably use a large socket to evenly tap the front main seal into the cover, (in Jeff Spicoli speak) "my dad's got an awesome set of tools" so I've got access to some pretty big sockets, I've just got the basic stuff here at the house.

Thanks for all the help so far.....

[Irnwkrkev]

GM part #12588670 for the dampner. I paid abou $35 from the dealer for it and they had it in a day or so. Comes w/ bolts. It's something less to fail, and the tensioners have been known to fail. I didn't replace the front crank seal on my timing cover.... But then again the car only had 1700 miles on it. You might want to install the pulley before you torque the cover then. Check access when you're doing the teardown to see if it's possible.

[robertway]

Originally Posted by Irnwkrkev

GM part #12588670 for the dampner. I paid abou $35 from the dealer for it and they had it in a day or so. Comes w/ bolts. It's something less to fail, and the tensioners have been known to fail. I didn't replace the front crank seal on my timing cover.... But then again the car only had 1700 miles on it. You might want to install the pulley before you torque the cover then. Check access when you're doing the teardown to see if it's possible.

I do agree that the dampner is a lot "simpler", just wondering what the benefit is that the LS3 tensioner brings into the mix, they are in the ZR1's after all. Wondering if it is the added stress on the timing chain with an upgraded cam and springs that pushes the LS3 tensioner over the edge.

Now for the stupid followup question, when you say the two bolts into the bellhousing I am assuming you are referring to the two that are at the very rear of the oil pan? (Yes, I did just ask that question)

[boat rx]

I could be wrong but I belive the ZR1 has the LS2 style dampner.

[robertway]

Originally Posted by boat rx

I could be wrong but I belive the ZR1 has the LS2 style dampner.

Could be my mistake, I coulda swore I saw in Corvetteforum.com a thread about the LS3 tensioner also being in the LS9.

[robertway]

One more quick question, good idea to replace the timing cover gasket? I've read everything from "definitely since you're in there" to "you don't really need to".

[Irnwkrkev]

I think it depends on how many miles you have on the car. I didn't replace a single gasket but had less than 2,000 miles on the car. They are high quality gaskets, not like the old paper stuff. Don't know how expensive a set is, that would determine to me if I'd try to reuse gaskets. It's alot of work if they fail!

Yep, those are the two bolts

[robertway]

15k miles, gasket is like 35 from the dealer

as for the oil pan, now I am at my wits end, all the pan bolts are loosened, the 15mm bolts at the bellhousing, and other than flexing down a little bit the friggin pan won't budge. Obviously it drops since others have done it but I am unsure of where and how much pressure I need to exert to get the pan to breakaway from its gasket, the last thing I need to do is much something up down there prying too hard against the wrong thing.