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Old 02-18-2009, 04:47 PM   #1
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GM mistakes

was watching fox news just now and the UAW that build gm cars make 150 dollars an hour with benefits and everything!!! Most of these people just have high school degrees! I love GM and all but thats rediculous! GM got themselves into all this mess with all this, its no wonder all these companies go out the country to build vehicles! Mayb instead of laying off its employees decrease their rediculous pay just like American Airlines did to quit from laying off employess! i would rather make some money than no money...sorry for ranting just venting about these huge companys with their rediculous spending.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:50 PM   #2
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Exactly whatchew said!
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:52 PM   #3
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Toyota and other equivalents make about 50-70 hr with benefits etc.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:52 PM   #4
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you serious? 150 an hour? no wonder they are in bad shape.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:52 PM   #5
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Not saying you are wrong, but I have heard more along the lines of 75 bucks an hour:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm2135.cfm


I mean keep in mind, this is FOX news we are talking about.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:54 PM   #6
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150 is WAAAY out of line. Its closer to 80 or so. And I moved this out of 5th Gen discussions
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:56 PM   #7
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Sorry, I've seen all the numbers, but I haven't seen anyone try to attribute it to 150/hour. Line workers in "critical" jobs get 26/hour. The new contract signed in 2007 has a lower tiered rate in the area of 14/hour. The total goes up when you count paying for the benefits including health care, vacation etc. And the big number of 75/hour comes from adding in the cost of the retiree pension and health care. Starting with Rick Wagoner and working your way down I doubt there is more than 100 executives making that kind of money.

And to be clear, eliminating the health care costs and transferring it to the VEBA puts GM hourly workers within $2/hour of the Japanese transplants.

It's paying for the legacy cost that is crippling GM, not the hourly rate of the existing workers. I grew up in Flint. In the 70's there were 40,000 people in Genesee County working directly for GM. Now the entire company, hourly and salary is barely double that. GM is paying for the pensions of something like 400,000 retirees and the health care for nearly a million. And not one of them is putting parts on a car on the line.

Don't quote my numbers, but they're pretty close going from memory.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:58 PM   #8
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150 is WAAAY out of line. Its closer to 80 or so. And I moved this out of 5th Gen discussions
Damn, even 70-80 pretty damn good if you're on the receiving end. Do you think their accepting applications? Who can I call for an interview?
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:58 PM   #9
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Regardless the time for unions i think should be done...yes its good for some things but hey there is a ton of people out there in the us today that i guarantee would do their job at half the price they pay them now!
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:59 PM   #10
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Yeah that sounds about right to me #3.

I love when you guys help to erase some of the bs floating around on the interwebs
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:59 PM   #11
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If I'm not mistaken, $70+ numbers are the wage of all hourly workers, plus the benefits of all hourly workers and retired hourly workers, and dividing it by the number of current hourly workers.

For instance, lets say I employ 10 people, and pay them $10/hr each, and they have another $10/hr worth of benefits. Lets also say I have another 15 hourly workers that have retired, and I'm still paying their benefits, per their contract. These benefits are still considered $10/hr. now we add all that up, and get $200/hr for all my current workers, plus another $150/hr for my retired workers. That equals $350/hr. Divide that by my current staff, and magically the media says I'm paying $35/hr.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:01 PM   #12
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there is a ton of people out there in the us today that i guarantee would do their job at half the price they pay them now!
If they start at 14 bucks an hour, you are telling me people would want to work for 7?

I don't know how crap your economy is in America, but here in Canada, nobody would work for 7 bucks an hour.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:01 PM   #13
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$150/hour is ridiculous and completely wrong. The last time I checked, it was around $75/hour, and dropping.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbolt70 View Post
If I'm not mistaken, they are wage of all hourly workers, plus the benefits of all hourly workers and retired hourly workers, and dividing it by the number of current hourly workers.

For instance, lets say I employ 10 people, and pay them $10/hr each, and they have another $10/hr worth of benefits. Lets also say I have another 15 hourly workers that have retired, and I'm still paying their benefits, per their contract. These benefits are still considered $10/hr. now we add all that up, and get $200/hr for all my current workers, plus another $150/hr for my retired workers. That equals $350/hr. Divide that by my current staff, and magically the media says I'm paying $35/hr.
That's it. Pretty much. The VEBA costs are what's killing the Big 3.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:03 PM   #15
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If they start at 14 bucks an hour, you are telling me people would want to work for 7?

I don't know how crap your economy is in America, but here in Canada, nobody would work for 7 bucks an hour.
7 American dollars is worth more than 7 Canadian. Many Americans work for 7 or less.... or else we would have no fast food or pizza joints....
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:03 PM   #16
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Wait a minute. My son makes 7.35 an hour. So don't judge. Of course that's at Burger King.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:06 PM   #17
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Regardless the time for unions i think should be done...yes its good for some things but hey there is a ton of people out there in the us today that i guarantee would do their job at half the price they pay them now!
please, please, I beg of you, learn the FACTS before you spout off about these things. Just because a media outlet says something does not mean its true. Almost everything these days can be misinterpreted and skewed to sound worse than it is. I mean after all, the media sector is in a recession too. They're desperately trying to get readers.

Just think about it the next time you read a statistic.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:06 PM   #18
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I doubt they make 14 dollars an hour. Im guessing they make a lot more money than that. closer to at least 60k and upwards of 100k a year. so yes i think people would in this economic time would work for half!i take 50k a year to work there with the benefits and pension they get
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:08 PM   #19
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:10 PM   #20
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please, please, I beg of you, learn the FACTS before you spout off about these things. Just because a media outlet says something does not mean its true. Almost everything these days can be misinterpreted and skewed to sound worse than it is. I mean after all, the media sector is in a recession too. They're desperately trying to get readers.

Just think about it the next time you read a statistic.
Im just saying what i saw on the news...im not saying its right but thats what i heard and thought it was a little rediculous. my general point i was getting across is we are paying a lot of people in these companys a rediculous amount of money. This place is supposed to be about voicing opinions and half the stuff on here is not comfirmed...
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:11 PM   #21
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I doubt they make 14 dollars an hour. Im guessing they make a lot more money than that. closer to at least 60k and upwards of 100k a year. so yes i think people would in this economic time would work for half!i take 50k a year to work there with the benefits and pension they get
$14/hour is starting pay for any hourly GM employee. Once you get 30 or so years, you might get into the $20/hour range.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:12 PM   #22
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I doubt they make 14 dollars an hour. Im guessing they make a lot more money than that. closer to at least 60k and upwards of 100k a year. so yes i think people would in this economic time would work for half!i take 50k a year to work there with the benefits and pension they get
You do understand in all these statistics, they are rolling in the value of the benefits to the "hourly pay". Most line workers make between $14 and $26 bucks an hour, as their pay. That results in at most 50k a year. The unions have negotiated good benefits, which is where the additional cost is coming from. And the guys making more are 25+ year veterans of the job. My father has been at GM for 35 years, works for an executive VP, and wouldn't dream of making the numbers you started with in this thread. In fact, he just took a decent pay cut.

Did the unions shoot themselves in the foot? yes. Is their pay above average? yes. Is there really anything GM could have done about it? not really. We're paying for the demands of the union from decades ago.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:13 PM   #23
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Sorry, I've seen all the numbers, but I haven't seen anyone try to attribute it to 150/hour. Line workers in "critical" jobs get 26/hour. The new contract signed in 2007 has a lower tiered rate in the area of 14/hour.
So at most you are making 26 and thats probably something aslong the lines of a floor foreman or somesuch. I am imagining the majority are making under 20 bucks an hour.

Also look at what else #3 says, that GM's total wages are now within $2 an hour of Japaneese plants.

This is the same as what people assume about my job ( Mining) Oh you must make 150 grand a year. I wish.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:14 PM   #24
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$14/hour is starting pay for any hourly GM employee. Once you get 30 or so years, you might get into the $20/hour range.
Its important to note that these numbers are not what the employee sees on his/her check. It is all labor/benefit costs associated with an hourly employee. Since they have more former retired hourly employees collecting benefits than actual working employees the numbers become skewed as you see them. But they are real costs that GM must overcome because they do appear on the balance sheets.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:15 PM   #25
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Did the unions shoot themselves in the foot? yes. Is their pay above average? yes. Is there really anything GM could have done about it? not really. We're paying for the demands of the union from decades ago.
that is what my point i was trying to get across...sorry for starting all the drama! Geez some of u guys are so sensitive!lol
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