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Old 11-07-2011, 02:56 PM   #1
SUX2BU
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CTS-V spares as front runners on GINGER

11/05/11 Ginger gets some 18x4 CTS spares to use as skinnies.

I wasn't really planning on getting skinnies for the track but I ran across a set of wheels that I thought would fit for relatively cheap. They didn't, but since I had already bought them I decided to make them work with a little extra work. I did not want to simple run a spacer (not very safe especially for racing) and I also didn't want to run a huge adapter (didn't want to spend all this money to reduce the rotational mass and then add a heavy spacer with extra studs and lugs. I took a TON of measurements of everything involved and calculated that I needed 11mm of extra room to make the wheel fit and have adequate clearance for the brakes. Like I said earlier I did NOT want to run a regular spacer, I would only run a spacer that was hub centric on BOTH sides. I searched and searched but no one had what I needed. A couple companies would make custom hub centric spacers for me but they wanted an arm and a leg. Then I found a pair of 12mm hub centric spacers on Ebay for cheap, BUT they were 5x114.3mm bolt pattern and 67.1mm hubs. As you know our cars are 5x120mm bolt pattern and 66.9mm hubs. This wasn't the first time I had to make stuff fit so I ordered them and just figured I would wallow out the holes a bit (the important part is that they were hub centric inside/out and 67.1mm was VERY close to 66.9mm, .2mm is less than .008").

I also ordered longer studs to make up for the spacer I was going to add. There are a few choices for longer studs but the most affordable by far were replacement truck studs. They are exactly like ours except they are 7 mm longer. The spacer I was ordered was 12mm so I was giving up 5mm of threads going with this set up. It was going to be close on if I had enough threads to be safe. I calculated that I would have 7 full thread turns. Some places on line said the minimum was 6 turns and others said 9 turns, so this is where you have to make a judgement call. I actually ended up with about 7 1/2 turns, but I'll say 7 just to be safe.

Since the spacer was 12 mm thick and the hub "hat" was 11.53mm tall I knew the spacer was not going to sit flush. My remedy was to bevel the edge of the hub just enough for the spacer to fully seat on the rotor hat. I knocked out my studs and put in my longer ones. I had to grind a little notch in the aluminum part of the knuckle to be able to slide the longer studs in without having to remove the whole wheel bearing hub assembly. Since I am only getting 7 turns on the lugs I went ahead and used my stock GM wheel lugs from my Escalade for a little added safety.

When it was all said and done I think it came out pretty good. I lost ANOTHER 11.1 lbs off of each front wheels from my already VERY light street set up (44.4 lb 18x8.4 Forgestar F14 & 245/45 18 and 33.3 lb CTS 18x4 spare with M&H 185/50 18). If you are running stock 20" wheels you will lose almost 29 lbs off of each front wheel, that's a total loss of almost 58 lbs! The wheels are about 16.5 lbs each and the tires are about 16.8 lbs.

One thing you must also be aware of is that these tires are very short. my car is already VERY low because of my lowering springs and lightweight 18" Forgestar F14s. I'm sitting at about 2.5" lower than a stock SS. With these front runners I am another .6" lower up front. That's OVER 3" lower on the front of my car, so you have to be very careful when you drive on these. Since my car is already very low I'm already used to scanning the road when I drive to see what I have to avoid. I took some measurements and my front quarter fairs "mud flaps" were about 1.75" off the ground and my header flanges were even lower than that, about 1 5/8" off the ground. Also, these tires are made for a 5" wheel. These CTS wheels are only 4" wide, the rim lips are very tall and so are the bead shoulders. The tires were a HUGE pain in the ass to seat. I had to go to a specialty race tire shop to get them mounted and even he struggled a bit.

Finally, the last little thing about this set up I like is that one of these front runners can also double as a spare! Now, it doesn't fit perfectly in the spare tire well in the trunk. You can't actually put the flat cover over it, but you can put the carpeting back over and it's not that noticeable. I'm not going to drive around with this in my trunk all the time, but I will throw it in there when I go on road trips.

I looked up the part number for the stock length studs and its Dorman 610-434 (http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-15986-610-434.aspx). They are 57.93mm long. The 610-428 (http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-8116-610-428.aspx) are 65.4mm long.

Total cost of today's mods: $561.97
two CTS 18x4 wheels: $180.00
two M&H 185/50 18 radials: $327.08
Dorman 610-428 longer truck studs: $14.90
hub centric spacers: $39.99
























Last edited by SUX2BU; 04-03-2012 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:28 PM   #2
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That's awesome !!!
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:57 PM   #3
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Sweet. Nice mod.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:48 AM   #4
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Awesome, were do I get those wheels! They look like weld rts wheels almost!
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Old 11-08-2011, 02:57 PM   #5
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Awesome, were do I get those wheels! They look like weld rts wheels almost!
They are hard to come by. I bought then off a member here for $180 shipped, but he got them from a wholesale place for $120 shipped. I called them and they were already sold out of them.

I have a picture of the part number I will part when I get home.

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Old 11-08-2011, 05:02 PM   #6
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Is there a taller tire available? You have a link for the spacers?


Thanks,
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Old 11-08-2011, 05:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUX2BU View Post
11/05/11 Ginger gets some 18x4 CTS-V spares to use as skinnies.

I wasn't really planning on getting skinnies for the track but I ran across a set of wheels that I thought would fit for relatively cheap. They didn't, but since I had already bought them I decided to make them work with a little extra work. I did not want to simple run a spacer (not very safe especially for racing) and I also didn't want to run a huge adapter (didn't want to spend all this money to reduce the rotational mass and then add a heavy spacer with extra studs and lugs. I took a TON of measurements of everything involved and calculated that I needed 11mm of extra room to make the wheel fit and have adequate clearance for the brakes. Like I said earlier I did NOT want to run a regular spacer, I would only run a spacer that was hub centric on BOTH sides. I searched and searched but no one had what I needed. A couple companies would make custom hub centric spacers for me but they wanted an arm and a leg. Then I found a pair of 12mm hub centric spacers on Ebay for cheap, BUT they were 5x114.3mm bolt pattern and 67.1mm hubs. As you know our cars are 5x120mm bolt pattern and 66.9mm hubs. This wasn't the first time I had to make stuff fit so I ordered them and just figured I would wallow out the holes a bit (the important part is that they were hub centric inside/out and 67.1mm was VERY close to 66.9mm, .2mm is less than .008").

I also ordered longer studs to make up for the spacer I was going to add. There are a few choices for longer studs but the most affordable by far were replacement truck studs. They are exactly like ours except they are 7 mm longer. The spacer I was ordered was 12mm so I was giving up 5mm of threads going with this set up. It was going to be close on if I had enough threads to be safe. I calculated that I would have 7 full thread turns. Some places on line said the minimum was 6 turns and others said 9 turns, so this is where you have to make a judgement call. I actually ended up with about 7 1/2 turns, but I'll say 7 just to be safe.

Since the spacer was 12 mm thick and the hub "hat" was 11.53mm tall I knew the spacer was not going to sit flush. My remedy was to bevel the edge of the hub just enough for the spacer to fully seat on the rotor hat. I knocked out my studs and put in my longer ones. I had to grind a little notch in the aluminum part of the knuckle to be able to slide the longer studs in without having to remove the whole wheel bearing hub assembly. Since I am only getting 7 turns on the lugs I went ahead and used my stock GM wheel lugs from my Escalade for a little added safety.

When it was all said and done I think it came out pretty good. I lost ANOTHER 10 lbs off of each front wheels from my already VERY light street set up (44.4 lb 18x8.4 Forgestar F14 & 245/45 18 and 34.4 lb CTS-V 18x4 spare with M&H 185/50 18). If you are running stock 20" wheels you will lose almost 28 lbs off of each front wheel, that's a total loss of almost 56 lbs!

One thing you must also be aware of is that these tires are very short. my car is already VERY low because of my lowering springs and lightweight 18" Forgestar F14s. I'm sitting at about 2.5" lower than a stock SS. With these front runners I am another .6" lower up front. That's OVER 3" lower on the front of my car, so you have to be very careful when you drive on these. Since my car is already very low I'm already used to scanning the road when I drive to see what I have to avoid. I took some measurements and my front quarter fairs "mud flaps" were about 1.75" off the ground and my header flanges were even lower than that, about 1 5/8" off the ground. Also, these tires are made for a 5" wheel. These CTS-V wheels are only 4" wide, the rim lips are very tall and so are the bead shoulders. The tires were a HUGE pain in the ass to seat. I had to go to a specialty race tire shop to get them mounted and even he struggled a bit.

Finally, the last little thing about this set up I like is that one of these front runners can also double as a spare! Now, it doesn't fit perfectly in the spare tire well in the trunk. You can't actually put the flat cover over it, but you can put the carpeting back over and it's not that noticeable. I'm not going to drive around with this in my trunk all the time, but I will throw it in there when I go on road trips.

Total cost of today's mods: $561.97
two CTS-V 18x4 wheels: $180.00
two M&H 185/50 18 radials: $327.08
longer truck studs: $14.90
hub centric spacers: $39.99




Pics are here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=104
Very nice set-up
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jrrod6410 View Post
Is there a taller tire available? You have a link for the spacers?


Thanks,
J-Rod.
I don't know, a taller tire would be heavier and my whole point for doing this was to lose as much weight as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrrod6410 View Post
Is there a taller tire available? You have a link for the spacers?


Thanks,
J-Rod.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330626701168...84.m1423.l2649



Attached is the wheel's part number.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:53 AM   #9
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A small kink in my plans was when I tried to put my F14's back on. The studs were actually too long for my short black lugs. I was just going to cut off the non threaded excess, but I decided to instead just run the F14s with the 12mm spacer. The front wheels now sit out flush with the fender and it looks PERFECT! Exactly how I wanted it to look.
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:24 PM   #10
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Nice fit. As for the truck studs, what make and model? Thanks
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:45 PM   #11
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Nice fit. As for the truck studs, what make and model? Thanks
I used my 2003 Cadillac ESV, but they come on almost all trucks. You can buy the GM studs that are part number 11588810, but they were too pricey for me so I got the Dorman 610-428 replacement studs.
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:27 PM   #12
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There was some confusion on the wheel studs so I added the links. You are supposed to measure the length from the base of the shoulder, not the whole stud.

I looked up the part number for the stock length studs and its Dorman 610-434 (http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-15986-610-434.aspx). They are 57.93mm long. The 610-428 (http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-8116-610-428.aspx) are 65.4mm long.
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:50 PM   #13
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I used my 2003 Cadillac ESV, but they come on almost all trucks. You can buy the GM studs that are part number 11588810, but they were too pricey for me so I got the Dorman 610-428 replacement studs.
Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:29 PM   #14
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Just a bump since I have gotten a few questions on my skinnies in the last couple days.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:13 PM   #15
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Excellent thread man, and I have a question, I didn't see this mentioned anywhere but maybe I missed it. I understand everything about the set up, but I want to know if my stock lug nuts will work with my stock wheels and tires as my plan would be to use the skinnies set up just at the track, so I want to use my stock wheels and tires on the street and use the skinnies set up just at the track. If I do need to use different lug nuts for the stock wheels and tires with the longer lugs could you give me the size I will need to go to. Thanks!

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Old 01-24-2012, 11:32 AM   #16
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Excellent thread man, and I have a question, I didn't see this mentioned anywhere but maybe I missed it. I understand everything about the set up, but I want to know if my stock lug nuts will work with my stock wheels and tires as my plan would be to use the skinnies set up just at the track, so I want to use my stock wheels and tires on the street and use the skinnies set up just at the track. If I do need to use different lug nuts for the stock wheels and tires with the longer lugs could you give me the size I will need to go to. Thanks!

Dan
I didn't try them since I got rid of my stock stuff a long time ago, but it should work just fine. Worst case scenario is you will have to cut the non threaded excess off the tips of the studs. I chose to just run the spacers with my front since it makes the wheels look more aggressive.
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Old 01-24-2012, 03:49 PM   #17
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Thank you
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:48 PM   #18
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EDIT: So it turns out these are NOT CTS-V wheels like I thought. They are actually regular CTS wheels. CTS-Vs don't have spares that bolt right up.

If a mod could be so nice as to change the thread title. Thanks.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:30 AM   #19
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Gabe,

How tall are those front tire roughly, 26"?
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:01 PM   #20
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Gabe,

How tall are those front tire roughly, 26"?
Gabe? My name is Juan.
Yeah they are 26" tall.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:14 PM   #21
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Sorry my brain is going, we met at SAR years ago.

I know you are well researched on tires and fitment, is there a tall 18 that you ever came across for the front?
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Camaro Now: Mods for the Masses Part I | Part II
13.15@106 1.95 | 100% Stock
12.37@112 1.85 | + Kooks Headers/Cats + 20" 555R + CAI + BW TB + UDP + Tune
12.06@113 1.70 | + CD 3200 + 18" NT05R + RCR Intake + NE OTR + GPI Tune
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:16 AM   #22
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Sorry my brain is going, we met at SAR years ago.

I know you are well researched on tires and fitment, is there a tall 18 that you ever came across for the front?
Nope, just a bunch of 26s.
If you want tall you have to go with a 17" wheel.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:56 PM   #23
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Bump...

Any 27" tires that would work?
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PROJECT HEAVY CHEVY
Camaro Now: Mods for the Masses Part I | Part II
13.15@106 1.95 | 100% Stock
12.37@112 1.85 | + Kooks Headers/Cats + 20" 555R + CAI + BW TB + UDP + Tune
12.06@113 1.70 | + CD 3200 + 18" NT05R + RCR Intake + NE OTR + GPI Tune
11.84@113 1.59 | + 3.91s + Race Star 17x7 Fronts
__.__@___ 1.__ | + GPI VVT Cam + BW Ported Heads
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:07 PM   #24
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ok I understand why you are using these and I don't want to derail the thread, but if I understand it, I can use the CTS-V spare on my Camaro as a spare?
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:55 PM   #25
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Well that would be the other use and the answer is NO unless you can get a tire that is around stock height. Stock is 28.7, and the tires Juan was running are 26.0 I think.
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PROJECT HEAVY CHEVY
Camaro Now: Mods for the Masses Part I | Part II
13.15@106 1.95 | 100% Stock
12.37@112 1.85 | + Kooks Headers/Cats + 20" 555R + CAI + BW TB + UDP + Tune
12.06@113 1.70 | + CD 3200 + 18" NT05R + RCR Intake + NE OTR + GPI Tune
11.84@113 1.59 | + 3.91s + Race Star 17x7 Fronts
__.__@___ 1.__ | + GPI VVT Cam + BW Ported Heads
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