Broken valve spring?? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

CWI · 11-02-2012, 10:45 PM

I'm sure I will get a lot of different answers here but let's see what people think.

I had my oil changed last week with Mobile1, that's all I have used since I got the car.
My car started makig a lot of valve train noise, a little more than normal yesterday but not enough that I was concerned. On my way to work today it was a little more noticable with the driver's window down. I rolled the passenger window down to see if i could here it from that side while driving and it was very noticable. It sounds like loose rockers on the valves. When I got to work I checked the oil thinking maybe the drain plug had been left loose or the filter. Oil level was good. Oil pressure seems normal, about 30 PSI at idle and 40-50 at 2000 RPM.

After raising the hood at idle, most of the noise is coming from the right head. The exhaust sounds normal on both sides. I have a Comp cam with lift of I believe 613/620. 57K miles and the cam was installed at 10K miles. I'm pretty sure it got double valve springs and was installed by a very good LS3 expert.

If it has double valve springs and one is broken I'm thinking it would make the sounds I am hearing. If one spring is broken, will the second spring normally keep the valve off the piston. I am debating whether or not to drive it home when I get off work or have it hauled. It's obviously had this issue a couple days but just got noticable to be of concern today on my way to work. I am guessing whatever damage has already be done but would hate to drop the valve by driving it anymore.

I have had a lot of cars and mods over the years and know how things work. I started driving in 1973. I am pretty sure this is a lifter or spring issue but don't want to cause more damage. I will be pulling the valve cover in the morning to see what is going on. I know most will immediately say don't even start it again. I hate to have it towed or hauled but think that is best not knowing exactly what is wrong.

EDIT: Found out it was a wasted trunion bearing. Got lucky! Springs are good but I am installing new ones.:party0048:

VADER SS L99 · 11-02-2012, 11:00 PM

I would have it checked before driving it again. I also would of had the springs checked at 40k miles or roughly every 30k miles.

CWI · 11-02-2012, 11:31 PM

With my description, does it sound like any valve damage has been done? Exhaust sounds normal, everything is normal except what sounds like a lot of valve lash noise that is not normal. I am hoping there is no damage at this point below the head.

CWI · 11-03-2012, 05:35 AM

I got the car home and will be pulling the valve cover to see what the springs look like. Is there a TDC mark on the balancer?

litle88 · 11-03-2012, 08:02 AM

It can also be a lifter, mobile1 sucks bud. Can you post a video? Without any wind noise if possible.

Bo White · 11-03-2012, 08:33 AM

How does Mobil 1 suck?

BullF-16 · 11-03-2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo White

How does Mobil 1 suck?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257146

Bo White · 11-03-2012, 11:42 AM

OK, doesnt "suck", just isnt what it used to be lol. Im not going to run Mobil in a 600hp engine either.

litle88 · 11-03-2012, 12:00 PM

Yes Bo, sorry not what it used to be lol.

Russell James · 11-03-2012, 12:15 PM

I'd take the valve covers off and make sure there are no loose rocker arms which could indicate wiped out lifters/cam.

If everything looks good under the valve covers, no abnormal play at the rockers.... I'd change the oil. Try something like a 10w30 Amsoil or Redline and only use 7 1/2 qts.

Sometimes if too much oil is added, the oil can aerate as it runs and make the lifters noisy. This will be an engine that is fairly quiet on a cold start then after about 10/15 minutes starts to have noisy lifters. Less, thicker, better oil can help if that's the problem.

Either way, with an aggressive cam, I'd get the Mobil 1 out. Hearing too many problems with it lately to trust it any more. They don't even use it as a factory fill anymore in the LS engines.

mikeSS · 11-03-2012, 12:32 PM

you will know if you broke a spring. I am no engine expert. and this is my first cammed car. i knew something was wrong. one of the springs of my duel broke, made weird noises. but the car was drivable. it ended up completely breaking after a few days.

again its not that it makes more valve train noise, but very weird noises. in my case that is.

J-Rod6410 · 11-03-2012, 01:08 PM

I did have several valve springs break on me . One time at 6500 rpm plus and it did put a nice little dent in my piston but the car still ran fine. I actually broke 3 different springs with my cam 621/624 but only the one at high speed damaged the piston. The inner spring will keep it from hitting unless you get into real high rpm. And my springs started breaking after 12k miles. These were the very expensive Comp 921 springs that broke. I've since installed Manley nextec springs and I got over 25k miles without issue.

Another possibility is a broken rocker arm, or the rocker arm bearing that came apart. This will be noticeable at idle, the broken spring really wont make noise at idle. If this happens you will scatter needle bearings everywhere. Oh yeah this happened to me also.

I was able to recover all the needles with a magnet and the ones that fell into the oil pan got caught by a magnetic drain plug. It would be a good idea to do the trunion upgrade on your rockers to avoid this.

Good luck!

CWI · 11-04-2012, 09:06 AM

Well I got lucky in one regard. Not a broken spring!!! I don't have to worry about valve condition or pistons.

What I do have to worry about is all but 3 needles from the #2 exhaust trunion being in my block. I am assuming the journals are large enough that they all got washed down to the pan. Does the LS3 have a magnetic drain plug? I am guessing the oil pickup has a screen that would prevent circulating the bearings.

For the experts to answer only, I don't need a bunch of guessing. If a magnetic drain plug would pickup the needles and I drain the oil and run some break in oil and change it again, would I have a good chance of getting all the needles out? How many needles are in the trunions anyway so I can count them? I am also assuming that the races were consumed or also went down to the pan. There was no sign of them on the head other than a very small amount of metal fragments and slurry I picked up with the magnet. The trunion looks to be untouched. I will be doing the upgraded trunions.

litle88 · 11-04-2012, 10:04 AM

Yes there is a magnetic drain plug, yes there is a screen on the oil pick up tube.

Gonna check to see how many needles for you. Stand by

11-02-2012, 10:45 PM	#1
CWI Helping Build America Drives: 2010 2SS/RS,LS3 2013 Duramax 3500HD Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Freeport LPG Export Posts: 3,839 View My Garage	Broken valve spring?? I'm sure I will get a lot of different answers here but let's see what people think. I had my oil changed last week with Mobile1, that's all I have used since I got the car. My car started makig a lot of valve train noise, a little more than normal yesterday but not enough that I was concerned. On my way to work today it was a little more noticable with the driver's window down. I rolled the passenger window down to see if i could here it from that side while driving and it was very noticable. It sounds like loose rockers on the valves. When I got to work I checked the oil thinking maybe the drain plug had been left loose or the filter. Oil level was good. Oil pressure seems normal, about 30 PSI at idle and 40-50 at 2000 RPM. After raising the hood at idle, most of the noise is coming from the right head. The exhaust sounds normal on both sides. I have a Comp cam with lift of I believe 613/620. 57K miles and the cam was installed at 10K miles. I'm pretty sure it got double valve springs and was installed by a very good LS3 expert. If it has double valve springs and one is broken I'm thinking it would make the sounds I am hearing. If one spring is broken, will the second spring normally keep the valve off the piston. I am debating whether or not to drive it home when I get off work or have it hauled. It's obviously had this issue a couple days but just got noticable to be of concern today on my way to work. I am guessing whatever damage has already be done but would hate to drop the valve by driving it anymore. I have had a lot of cars and mods over the years and know how things work. I started driving in 1973. I am pretty sure this is a lifter or spring issue but don't want to cause more damage. I will be pulling the valve cover in the morning to see what is going on. I know most will immediately say don't even start it again. I hate to have it towed or hauled but think that is best not knowing exactly what is wrong. EDIT: Found out it was a wasted trunion bearing. Got lucky! Springs are good but I am installing new ones.:party0048: __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit, what a ride!" Last edited by CWI; 11-05-2012 at 11:27 PM.

11-02-2012, 11:31 PM	#3
CWI Helping Build America Drives: 2010 2SS/RS,LS3 2013 Duramax 3500HD Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Freeport LPG Export Posts: 3,839 View My Garage	With my description, does it sound like any valve damage has been done? Exhaust sounds normal, everything is normal except what sounds like a lot of valve lash noise that is not normal. I am hoping there is no damage at this point below the head. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit, what a ride!"

11-03-2012, 05:35 AM	#4
CWI Helping Build America Drives: 2010 2SS/RS,LS3 2013 Duramax 3500HD Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Freeport LPG Export Posts: 3,839 View My Garage	I got the car home and will be pulling the valve cover to see what the springs look like. Is there a TDC mark on the balancer? __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit, what a ride!"

11-03-2012, 08:02 AM	#5
litle88 V8 Lounge member #2 Drives: 2001 Ws6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Burbank,IL Posts: 6,373	It can also be a lifter, mobile1 sucks bud. Can you post a video? Without any wind noise if possible. __________________ 2001 ws6, 40k miles, Ls3 416 stroker, short block built by PER the rest by me. LPE Ls3 heads milled to 12-1 comp, FAST 102, NW 102, kooks 2", dual DMH cutouts, Magnaflow C/B, BTR cam + springs. Full UMI suspension.

11-03-2012, 08:33 AM	#6
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,019	How does Mobil 1 suck? __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

11-02-2012, 11:00 PM	#2
VADER SS L99 Drives: 2013 A6 GT 5.0 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 2,909	I would have it checked before driving it again. I also would of had the springs checked at 40k miles or roughly every 30k miles. __________________ BLK/BLK 1SS/RS Ordered 11-01-2009 Took delivery 12-22-2009. Heads/cam/converter/bolt ons. SOLD Feb 2015 to fund 6th gen LT1 SS with 8L90E.

11-03-2012, 11:42 AM	#8
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,019	OK, doesnt "suck", just isnt what it used to be lol. Im not going to run Mobil in a 600hp engine either. __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

11-03-2012, 12:00 PM	#9
litle88 V8 Lounge member #2 Drives: 2001 Ws6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Burbank,IL Posts: 6,373	Yes Bo, sorry not what it used to be lol. __________________ 2001 ws6, 40k miles, Ls3 416 stroker, short block built by PER the rest by me. LPE Ls3 heads milled to 12-1 comp, FAST 102, NW 102, kooks 2", dual DMH cutouts, Magnaflow C/B, BTR cam + springs. Full UMI suspension.

11-03-2012, 12:15 PM	#10
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	I'd take the valve covers off and make sure there are no loose rocker arms which could indicate wiped out lifters/cam. If everything looks good under the valve covers, no abnormal play at the rockers.... I'd change the oil. Try something like a 10w30 Amsoil or Redline and only use 7 1/2 qts. Sometimes if too much oil is added, the oil can aerate as it runs and make the lifters noisy. This will be an engine that is fairly quiet on a cold start then after about 10/15 minutes starts to have noisy lifters. Less, thicker, better oil can help if that's the problem. Either way, with an aggressive cam, I'd get the Mobil 1 out. Hearing too many problems with it lately to trust it any more. They don't even use it as a factory fill anymore in the LS engines.

11-03-2012, 12:32 PM	#11
mikeSS Drives: 2015 c7 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: MI Posts: 7,462	you will know if you broke a spring. I am no engine expert. and this is my first cammed car. i knew something was wrong. one of the springs of my duel broke, made weird noises. but the car was drivable. it ended up completely breaking after a few days. again its not that it makes more valve train noise, but very weird noises. in my case that is.

11-03-2012, 01:08 PM	#12
J-Rod6410 M6 9 second club Drives: A 4000 Lb BeaSSt Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Crackin Azz on a hi-way near you Posts: 1,033 View My Garage	I did have several valve springs break on me . One time at 6500 rpm plus and it did put a nice little dent in my piston but the car still ran fine. I actually broke 3 different springs with my cam 621/624 but only the one at high speed damaged the piston. The inner spring will keep it from hitting unless you get into real high rpm. And my springs started breaking after 12k miles. These were the very expensive Comp 921 springs that broke. I've since installed Manley nextec springs and I got over 25k miles without issue. Another possibility is a broken rocker arm, or the rocker arm bearing that came apart. This will be noticeable at idle, the broken spring really wont make noise at idle. If this happens you will scatter needle bearings everywhere. Oh yeah this happened to me also. I was able to recover all the needles with a magnet and the ones that fell into the oil pan got caught by a magnetic drain plug. It would be a good idea to do the trunion upgrade on your rockers to avoid this. Good luck! __________________ TEAM LS3 Best pass: 9.61 @ 146 with M6 TBDRWHP TBDRWTQ ECS S/C 408, YSi, m6, Mantic Triple, ZL1 diff #BuiltByJRod.... J-Rod's Speed Shop.... Tuned by: Matt Sorian @ MS Tuning Check out my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/6410Jrod Follow me on Instagram: @J_Rod6410

11-04-2012, 09:06 AM	#13
CWI Helping Build America Drives: 2010 2SS/RS,LS3 2013 Duramax 3500HD Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Freeport LPG Export Posts: 3,839 View My Garage	Well I got lucky in one regard. Not a broken spring!!! I don't have to worry about valve condition or pistons. What I do have to worry about is all but 3 needles from the #2 exhaust trunion being in my block. I am assuming the journals are large enough that they all got washed down to the pan. Does the LS3 have a magnetic drain plug? I am guessing the oil pickup has a screen that would prevent circulating the bearings. For the experts to answer only, I don't need a bunch of guessing. If a magnetic drain plug would pickup the needles and I drain the oil and run some break in oil and change it again, would I have a good chance of getting all the needles out? How many needles are in the trunions anyway so I can count them? I am also assuming that the races were consumed or also went down to the pan. There was no sign of them on the head other than a very small amount of metal fragments and slurry I picked up with the magnet. The trunion looks to be untouched. I will be doing the upgraded trunions. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit, what a ride!"

11-04-2012, 10:04 AM	#14
litle88 V8 Lounge member #2 Drives: 2001 Ws6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Burbank,IL Posts: 6,373	Yes there is a magnetic drain plug, yes there is a screen on the oil pick up tube. Gonna check to see how many needles for you. Stand by __________________ 2001 ws6, 40k miles, Ls3 416 stroker, short block built by PER the rest by me. LPE Ls3 heads milled to 12-1 comp, FAST 102, NW 102, kooks 2", dual DMH cutouts, Magnaflow C/B, BTR cam + springs. Full UMI suspension.