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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 05-26-2013, 12:18 PM   #1
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WTF "The Sequel": Lifters and Cam damage...again

Quick history lesson: 9 months ago I had the LG G6X3 cam installed in my 2010 SS LS3. Also had TB ported by builder. Oil pump failed on the dyno post install (I was not present). Pump was replaced w/ stock, no idea if there was any damage as builder assumed there was none (Yes, my fault for not pressing the matter). Car dynoed 470/440. Car ran fine for ~ 1 month before developing a sudden and very noticeable ticking. Towed back to shop, teardown showing half the lifters destroyed/mushroomed in addition to extensive cam scoring and damage. LG stepped up and replaced the cam ( adjusted the grind to allow for a tiny bit more PTV clearance just in case) and lifters citing potential/probable oil cause (mobile1 lack of zinc/magnesium for cammed vehicles) and builder put it back together. Lifter bores were "assumed" to be fine by builder even though the lifters had to be forcibly removed (dug out). Car dynoed 455/424, no one can explain it (no idea why and tuning is another story entirely...).

Fast forward to this past Friday: Not having any issues since 2nd install back in October, car suddenly develops a ticking pulling out of driveway. Immediately pulled it back into garage and shut her down, the tick was definitely coming from the motor. Did a full tear down to the block yesterday w/ help of buddies. First thing I noticed was that my supposedly "ported" TB was beat to absolute sh*t. The inside was scored and dug out/grooved in a total hack job. Worse, there was a quarter sized piece missing from the neck/lip!! Infuriating and clearly a massive screw up by builder who never told me and sought to cover it up. Also the drivers side head and block valley had extensive scuffing and "grinding" marks from what I can only assume was from the last "install." Again, maddening. Next, upon removing the passenger side head we found several lifters did not easily slide from the bores. 1 lifter required some assistance via pliers on the #2 cylinder to come out though we didn't see any real damage. However, a lifter from the #4 required 15 of plier work and sweat to pull from the bore and showed signs of damage (roller chewed though intact) and scuffing etc. Below are pics I took, I have others:

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So aside from apparently requiring repairs to the bores (is it possible?) which should have been done originally, and needing new lifters and cam...I also need a new throttle body which was trashed by the builder.

I guess for now my question would be what am I looking at for repairs and other possible damage that may yet be unseen? I can take stuff apart (to help save money for teardowns) but prefer to leave the repairs and mods to pros.

Any help/suggestions would be welcome.
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:24 PM   #2
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Holy shit!
Who the hell was this "builder"?
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:37 PM   #3
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For now I'm going to withhold his name and shop in the possibility that he will take the opportunity to help correct this mess. Already reached out to inform him. The throttle body is an obvious screw up as well as the head "scoring". I honestly can't lay blame regarding the cam/lifters since sh*t happens and you just can't say it was the builder...I mean it's a cam install, hard to screw up. But I'm still here scratching my head...
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:45 PM   #4
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Ouch.
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:47 PM   #5
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How are they in business doing work like that?
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:58 PM   #6
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Wow that's scary. Hope it all work out for you.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:01 PM   #7
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Judging by the pix of the tb it looks like a cnc job that's been gone over again and made too thin.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:08 PM   #8
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The first thing I thought when I saw the missing metal was...wtf is that piece??? I can't imagine anyone installing that on a car...so if I assume it was too thin and broke off after install...that piece was/is in my motor. What kind of damage could that have caused...
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravener View Post
For now I'm going to withhold his name and shop in the possibility that he will take the opportunity to help correct this mess. Already reached out to inform him. The throttle body is an obvious screw up as well as the head "scoring". I honestly can't lay blame regarding the cam/lifters since sh*t happens and you just can't say it was the builder...I mean it's a cam install, hard to screw up. But I'm still here scratching my head...
A cam install is not hard to screw up? Well, I have seen it time and time again. Someone gets a cam install, a little while later they get a tick and trash a motor. People try to say that it had nothing to do with the install, but most of the time it has everything to do with the install. Whenever you go in the motor there is chance of leaving even the smallest amount of trash in it. This trash gets mixed in the oil and then gets sent through the oil pump, lifters, bearings, ect.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:00 PM   #10
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One thing that back yard mechanics dont realize is the ls engine is not as forgiving as the SBC. Not saying that the op took his car to such a person.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:01 PM   #11
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Your builder sucks. No doubt about it.

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Old 05-26-2013, 04:58 PM   #12
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Op, how many miles since this cam and lifter repair was done?
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravener View Post
Quick history lesson: 9 months ago I had the LG G6X3 cam installed in my 2010 SS LS3. Also had TB ported by builder. Oil pump failed on the dyno post install (I was not present). Pump was replaced w/ stock, no idea if there was any damage as builder assumed there was none (Yes, my fault for not pressing the matter). Car dynoed 470/440. Car ran fine for ~ 1 month before developing a sudden and very noticeable ticking. Towed back to shop, teardown showing half the lifters destroyed/mushroomed in addition to extensive cam scoring and damage. LG stepped up and replaced the cam ( adjusted the grind to allow for a tiny bit more PTV clearance just in case) and lifters citing potential/probable oil cause (mobile1 lack of zinc/magnesium for cammed vehicles) and builder put it back together. Lifter bores were "assumed" to be fine by builder even though the lifters had to be forcibly removed (dug out). Car dynoed 455/424, no one can explain it (no idea why and tuning is another story entirely...).

Fast forward to this past Friday: Not having any issues since 2nd install back in October, car suddenly develops a ticking pulling out of driveway. Immediately pulled it back into garage and shut her down, the tick was definitely coming from the motor. Did a full tear down to the block yesterday w/ help of buddies. First thing I noticed was that my supposedly "ported" TB was beat to absolute sh*t. The inside was scored and dug out/grooved in a total hack job. Worse, there was a quarter sized piece missing from the neck/lip!! Infuriating and clearly a massive screw up by builder who never told me and sought to cover it up. Also the drivers side head and block valley had extensive scuffing and "grinding" marks from what I can only assume was from the last "install." Again, maddening. Next, upon removing the passenger side head we found several lifters did not easily slide from the bores. 1 lifter required some assistance via pliers on the #2 cylinder to come out though we didn't see any real damage. However, a lifter from the #4 required 15 of plier work and sweat to pull from the bore and showed signs of damage (roller chewed though intact) and scuffing etc. Below are pics I took, I have others:


So aside from apparently requiring repairs to the bores (is it possible?) which should have been done originally, and needing new lifters and cam...I also need a new throttle body which was trashed by the builder.

I guess for now my question would be what am I looking at for repairs and other possible damage that may yet be unseen? I can take stuff apart (to help save money for teardowns) but prefer to leave the repairs and mods to pros.

Any help/suggestions would be welcome.
OP, if I were you (and trust me, I've been in your shoes) I would take that engine out of the car, tear it down completely, and just do a fresh build. I'd have the block machined and get all new upgraded internals (might as well do a stroker) with aftermarket or ported heads and another cam. Then I'd put it all together myself. Or I'd just buy a crate engine.

But concerning your story, I personally don't like that your builder "assumed" there was no engine damage when the oil pump failed. If anything, he should have assumed that there WAS engine damage. Or at least explained to you that it's a huge possibility. He should have given you the choice of either breaking the engine back down or just leaving it alone and hoping for the best. And then to "assume" that the lifter bores were fine after having to forcibly remove the lifters is just idiotic. Especially since the engine was already out and torn down. That makes no sense and he should have known better.

Your best bet is to take the block and the heads to a machine shop and ask their opinion.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:51 PM   #14
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Sounds like its time to find a new mechanic. I also wouldn't recommend using the G6X3 cam in unless it just a track car. It has very aggressive intake lobes that are hard to control.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:58 PM   #15
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Very true on the lsk lobes!
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:05 PM   #16
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I gotta ask...are you running an air filter? That pic of the throttle blade looks like it has been hit by debris coming through the intake tract or something. They don"t look like they are from porting.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:14 PM   #17
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Not the first problem for this shop. All shops will have shit happen. It's how they deal with it is what's important. Using that tb is a scumbag move though. Gd luck in getting it back together.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:20 PM   #18
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If was I you I would NOT even consider NOT doing complete rebuild on that engine, I don't even know what could cause the lifter to do that because the ls3 can take pretty high lift so I dont think you had a clearance problem, unless the cam was cut wrong but if that was the case you would have heard that on the first start up, but the plugs also look like they were burning lean but I couldn't really tell from the pics but one thing is for sure, that cam and lifter got really hot from something do you have any pics of the cam?
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:21 PM   #19
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Wow, good luck and hope they make it right with you.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:23 PM   #20
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As much stuff that you have had fail in the engine there is no telling how much metal you have rattling around in there. Any metal can cause things to fail. Harden metal like cams even more so. I would be looking to put a crate motor in the car.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:41 PM   #21
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this motor needs a full teardown, as it should have had with an oil pump failure.

if the lifters are that hard to remove, the block may be damaged
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:05 PM   #22
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If you want my opinion I think your lifter bores probably got damaged the first time and is why your motor is in the mess that its in. I feel for ya because I'm in the same boat. Motor developed a lifter tick and within seconds a rod bearing failure. I will not be using my original block no mater if someone thinks the lifter bores can be fixed. I also will never use a LSX lobed cam again and will never use Mobil 1 again even if that was not the cause no mater what my builder recommends..
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Op, how many miles since this cam and lifter repair was done?
Less than 1500 miles.

Quote:
I gotta ask...are you running an air filter? That pic of the throttle blade looks like it has been hit by debris coming through the intake tract or something. They don"t look like they are from porting.
Yes, I use a Vararam.

Quote:
If was I you I would NOT even consider NOT doing complete rebuild on that engine, I don't even know what could cause the lifter to do that because the ls3 can take pretty high lift so I don't think you had a clearance problem, unless the cam was cut wrong but if that was the case you would have heard that on the first start up, but the plugs also look like they were burning lean but I couldn't really tell from the pics but one thing is for sure, that cam and lifter got really hot from something do you have any pics of the cam?
My concern is the rapidly mounting costs at this point. I'm dreading a massive bill, especially given my last two experiences (expensive ones at that obviously). I don't have pics of the cam yet as I stopped after removing the heads/lifters. My next step is probably getting it towed to another shop nearby and saying "HELP!"

Anyone feeling confident is throwing out some $ estimates for what I may be looking at?
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Less than 1500 miles.



Yes, I use a Vararam.



My concern is the rapidly mounting costs at this point. I'm dreading a massive bill, especially given my last two experiences (expensive ones at that obviously). I don't have pics of the cam yet as I stopped after removing the heads/lifters. My next step is probably getting it towed to another shop nearby and saying "HELP!"

Anyone feeling confident is throwing out some $ estimates for what I may be looking at?

Free, make the builder buy you a new motor..
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:25 PM   #25
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I remember the OP's first thread and it was total BS! I really feel for ya bud, I gotta ask what does your valve train consist of bud! Tell me your whole set up pleas. I think you might be using the wrong parts, just throwing it out there.
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