[BamBam2SS]

First and foremost, I'm a car enthusiast. Not a brand loyalist... I understand there is a forum bias but the current mustang if optioned properly is not a bad car at all... I just found the Camaro to be a step above the Mustang in every aspect except for visibility granted the Mustang has acres of hood to look over.

I have been waiting on a lawsuit with carmax for a while, As my lawyer slept on the case for nearly a year all he had to do was send a letter of demands and they folded to nearly our every whim. It was done in less than 2 months after that letter.

Within all that time, I did my homework on cars that would be just about in my reach... It included a lot of cars that caught my interest but 2 stood out more, The current Mustang GT with almost all options minus recaros (because fat) and a just about fully equipped 2SS but the 2SS was a bit of a stretch to me because the Mustang is a bit less... Fully optioned GT the way I want it is $43K when a 2SS optioned to my liking is pushing just under $49K.

As my friends talked me towards the Mustang, I did all my homework on it and used their 2015 GT (perfectly optioned too, but old sync system) to get an idea of what it's like and its indeed a nice car... They have a lot of weak points and just as many if not a little more common quality and mechanical defects from factory as the Camaro's do. But working at Tesla for the last 2 years and with the quality team at that for the last few months, This is not something new to me...

I let it slip that I browsed Camaro's at the same time I'm online browsing Mustang's on facebook, I get a ping an hour later from a friend I used to work with and is apart of the same Nissan Z club I was in (I sued carmax over a 370z)... He works at a relatively local Chevy dealership and is confident he can get my ideal Camaro near the cost of a comparable Mustang.

So, When I was finally able to throw the Z back at Carmax and I received my check in the mail within 48 hours. I was at that dealership seeing my friend... He had me test drive a Yellow left over 2016 2SS optioned perfectly (A8, Navigation, Sunroof, Mag ride and NPP exhaust). I noted the production defects but it didn't matter, He knew I requested no attention grabbing colors (Nothing wrong with them, But I think the sharp design of the Camaro is more than enough to turn heads, I don't want to over do it by making the color pop out so much too [So i wanted gray, silver, white])... The panel over the cluster didn't seem to fit very well, the top of the dash didn't line up with the top of the door panel on the driver side, the black window trim above the quarter glas looked to be bent down at the edge where it meets the trim for the drivers window glass (so it didn't line up and actually lifted out about quarter inch), the dealership fitted the ground affects kit on it and that looked like an aftermarket add on, the side mirror on the driver side made a whistle noise at highway speeds but for the most part, other things I noticed were just from careless test drivers like scratched center console and steering wheel...

I loved the way it sounded and drove... So, I was sold... But not on big bird. They have a white 2SS similarly optioned tucked way in the back of the lot. But it's a 2017...

The check was deposited on the 2nd... and then I was informed it wouldn't clear until the 14th. So I had to wait... But I got a pre-approval at 3.24% from my bank just to make it seem like I'm doing stuff, I got insurance quotes as well and found Mercury insurance gave me the best quote.

Last weekend I went to try and buy that white 2SS... But we couldn't get there on the numbers. My friend looked a bit uncomfortable when the manager came to talk to me... The manager gave me some really crappy numbers, The 2SS is listed on their website for $46K which is already $2K off the sticker... He was saying $15K down gets me $527 a month or something like that for 84 months. I had said my top limit was $450 a month... No matter what they have to do to get to that number, I didn't know I would get a 84 month loan... But I'm looking at a forever car and want it as low as possible in case something happens where I need a bit of extra money while I will be paying over $550 a month normally on it to pay it off sooner.

My friend remained quiet and looked down as the manager gave me the typical sales man pitch and these high numbers... I said no, got all my stuff and was ready to walk out when he said that there's not much profit "in these cars" and that in the following week they can put it as a managers special which will take a few grand more off and that should help it get to those numbers.

I didn't feel entirely comfortable and the fact my friend didn't look very comfortable didn't help, It made me think the manager took over and I was getting shafted, But I loved the car... So I told my friend to text me as soon as they put it on sale and we will see what we can do then.

So... As I sat in the BMW I have on loan from my dad in front of the dealership, I looked back at my original game plan. It was still early 11:30'ish AM and I had nothing else to do that day... So I wanted to look at a Mustang, Found one exactly how I would order it about 35 minutes away from where I was at... 2017 GT Premium, Performance pack, Navigation, 401A equipment group, security enhanced package, rear park assist and in my desired colors, Silver with red leather interior.... Remembering my friends (married couple) have a hook up at a Ford dealership and their preferred guy... I gave them a ring and they gave me his name, Jimmie Mac (or something like that) and I invited them over to help me out with the introduction and that I'd treat them out to dinner after since they live close by.

They accepted and I went over to this Ford dealership and as soon as I pulled up it was like the seagulls from finding nemo... 6 sales men doing the "mine mine mine" thing until one literally jogged over to my car and greeted me as I was getting out (I wear glasses so I had to switch from prescription sun glasses to my regular glasses, un plug my phone and grab some papers so they had time).

I asked for this Jimmie Mac guy and the look of utter disappointed crossed the face of the young car sales man as he said he's inside... So I went in and was greeted by a older greasy guy (with a hint of BO [further adding to the greasy appearance])... But the guy went straight to the point when I mentioned who sent me and asked what I wanted. searched online at their lot and found none... then looked abroad and found the one I was originally wanting (silver over red). Then I'm told it's not transferable, the dealership didn't want to give it up.

I'm kind of confused at this point as I just wanted to look at Mustangs, It didn't have to be that specific one but just test drive and get an idea of the numbers I could get on it... But me being the door mat I am, I roll with this. He grabs a piece of paper and I list all the options I want on it and we find one about 50 miles out, But it's white over "red line". He prints out the window sticker as my friends arrive and as I'm looking it over. I notice it said Recaro... So that one was out, I mention there's a 2016 that is acceptable about 20 miles away (I did all my homework on finding cars). and he pulls it up... Sticker is $43K but on that dealerships website is listed at $42K after $1K rebate.

So after some BS'ing, My friends and this sales man were seemingly friends, they have eachothers phone numbers and they've bought several cars from him... He tells my friends to step out for a minute so we can discuss numbers. My friends look confused as they've been present when they brought their roommate in to buy an F150 and one of their sisters but oblige.

He flips the piece of paper over and these numbers match the Camaro's... I'm saying no to it all, not going to do $500 a month on a Mustang. then finally they get it down to $480 but between him running to another office and back my friends would pop back in and glance everything over, and when they passed eachother at one point the sales man tells one to be quiet as my friend is looking at the paper just as puzzled as I am, they left and I concede a little with the $480 if I can find insurance to be under $215. So we both pull out our phones and start calling insurance companies to get a quote, my friends wonder back when they see me and the sales guy on the phone.

The louder friend asks me as i'm on hold with an insurance agent where did these numbers come from because on top it says $47,6XX then +fee's =$5xx a month at 84 months, with $46,xxx + fees = $48X a month at 84 months and suggests I ask for a more thorough break down of these numbers as he's playing with a calculator on his phone. Then asks me whats the sticker on the car I'm looking at?... I said $43K with a $1K rebate. He asked if I was sure, and I pull it up on my phone and show him.

I get my quote at $220 a month from Mercury and we wait for the sales man to finish his... Then my friend puts my phone in front of him and says "I think you guys are running numbers on the wrong car" and chuckles...

Mr. Mac huffs, Turns red and gives my friend a dirty glare. grabs my phone... Looks at it, without saying a word puts it down and leaves the office.

All 3 of us (Friends and I) look at each other with WTF? expressions... The sales man, Mr.Mac asks my louder friend to come have a chat with him... 3 minutes goes by and they return. Both looking pissed off, My friend now has his sun glasses on and he's quiet.

The sales man asks me to follow him, Takes me to a Ford Flex and points to a piece of paper next to the window sticker that says "Market adjustment $3,5XX" and tells me every car they sell has this because there's very little profit to be had on the cars... But just this time, He will take off the mark up to complete the deal.

I go sit back down and my friends have already talked among themselves saying they think this will be the last time they come here... My louder friend is more pissed saying "He shouldn't do that, We bought 4 cars from him in 2 years and sent 3 people to him and he got 2 sales out of that alone... you don't do that to people I send" and I'm just nodding...

I think I just shut down at that point, So after they took off that mark up the monthly payment went down to $460 and I agreed to it.

Got insurance for the car through statefarm ($217), As it was getting late the sales man asked if it was okay that I get the car tomorrow. That he would in the morning go out to the dealership that has it and drive it back for me. I agreed...

Then I was passed off to another guy who was filling out my contract... He kept trying to add protection coating, maintenance packages, extended warranties etc... And I kept saying no to them all. He then said that the 7 year, 100K mile warranty won't add anything to the cost... So I figured it was complimentary since I caught them trying to sell me a car for $47K after it was advertised elsewhere for $42K.

I signed everything, wrote a check for $14K and was on my way... went to my friends house for a little while then dinner. They kept asking me if I was excited about my purchase... Honestly, No I wasn't.

I was thinking nervous?, But actually turned out being disappointed... The whole experience didn't feel right and I couldn't say I loved the car but liked it although I haven't seen it, So I figured that's what it was.

I posted on facebook at dinner, that I think I bought a Mustang... Many congratulations and "awesome!" then a emoji from my friend who works at the Chevy dealership.

When I got home, I looked over the contract... and that warranty I thought was complimentary turned out to be an additional $3K... Bringing the 2016 Mustang with 126 Miles to $53K.

I got pissed, Called my mom to get some advice and went over to my dads house to get more advice... My mom is a bit more hot headed and she wanted to go with me tomorrow to the dealership, While my dad is more calm and thinks things through like I do.

But they both had one thing in common, That I bought parts for a Camaro a week ago (Gen5diy reverse light LED harness thing, 2 different types of reverse light bulbs [longer but brighter from Diode Dynamics and the optional from Gen5diy which are short and fat just to see if I can get the long bulbs to fit and if not then the short ones will], license plate LED's from diode dynamics, trunk LED from diode dynamics, License plate frame, 2 rubbery key covers and key chain that says Camaro SS [I don't want to do big mods immediately as to not void the warranty for at least 6K miles])... for the last few weeks, all I talked about was the Camaro and that I test drove a Camaro before I even had the money readily available and more importantly... My friend has been very patient and honest with me, He gave me the advice that if the sales man isn't pissed off, then I didn't get a deal.

So I wasn't happy with the car after all... and the shady practices of the dealership turned me off them completely. So, I paid $25 online to my bank to put a stop payment on the check... Told my friends (the married couple) that I'm backing out of it, They completely understood and even offered to be the one to tell the sales guy. But I wanted to do the honors after he came back from picking up the Mustang.

So I texted my friend, telling him what went on at Ford and that I'm not taking the Mustang after all... He agreed that it was really messed up of them and offered to run numbers for after the discount hit to give me a better idea of what the Camaro will run me a month. I agreed...

So, at 11:30AM the following day. Jimmie Mac called... Said "Good morning Mr.Alan, I got your Mustang here with a full tank of gas, a fresh wash looking beautiful"... I said "Oh cool... But I think I'm going to back away from this sale"... *Crickets*... He asks if I'm joking. I said no... Then asks why. So I tell him "After giving it some thought and talking to several people about it, I wasn't happy with the car and then add the tone you set by trying to add $5600 to the price of the car when you guys didn't even have it on the lot but it was advertised else where for below the sticker price set the tone... Then after that was taken off, the contract guy slipped in a $3K warranty... I've already looked else where and am having numbers ran at another dealership"... More silence... Then said he's going to talk to his manager.

So the manager gets on the line and he's pissed... And asks why again, So I explain it again and he says that they always add $3K in mark up on the cars because there's no profit made on them otherwise. So I asked, Why was it over $5K for me?... He didn't answer but said, I should have thought about that before I signed the contract so the car is mine.

I said, No it's not. I haven't taken possession of it and the check I wrote was cancelled just a few hours after writing it. He got even more mad and said it's illegal to write a check then to put a stop on it... I told him that he heard about my lawsuit with carmax that just ended, so you know I have a lawyer that specializes in car dealerships if you want to take it further. His tone kind of changed to "what will it get for you to come down here so we can talk"

I told him that it wont do any good, because under no circumstance am I leaving with a car that has a soiled buying experience... He begins to plead with me to just look at the car, But I stay firm... Then finally he says alright, As I'm in mid "have a good one" he hangs up on me.

I go over to my dads house to tell him I'm going to have his car a bit longer that I made up my mind on taking the Mustang... as we're talking, the general manager now calls me and I answer on speaker phone.

He asks what happened, And I explain it a 3rd time... He doesn't get as mad as the other 2 but wants me to come over and talk in person and see the car... Again no, He says they just want to save face at this point so he will offer the car for $3K below sticker and remove the warranty. So in total it's taking $6K off... Me and my dad give each other a "not bad" facial expression. But I still stick to my no. after more begging gets him nowhere, he hangs up on me.

I text my friend and tell him they offered me the Mustang for $38K but I still said no, he agreed that was a good price and tells me he's been busy so he'll play with my numbers later.

At 10PM he texts me to say my $450 is definitely do able and I tell him, Sounds great, consider it sold and to text me when to come get it.

He calls and just wants to make sure, I'm not going to run off to get a Mustang during the week... I assured him, The Camaro is the superior car and that I'll wait the week out for him to work his magic on the deal. He tells me Tuesday the soonest he'll text if not then thursday the latest.

So I'm hoping soon, I got stuff to do this weekend.

If you read this whole thing then I am impressed... I wanted to share my experience so far with trying to buy a car.

It made me wonder... I heard from 3 managers over 2 car dealerships that there isn't much profit for them on "these kind of cars" only to hear when 1 for sure lost a sale that there was a magical $3K give in and suddenly my numbers work on the superior car.

I think I learned to piss off my sales man and show them I'm not the confrontational type, So I will walk out of a deal at any point when I realize I don't feel comfortable which I'd think is more of a worse scenario if they're trying to sell me a car.

[COmaro]

"So I will walk out of a deal at any point when I realize I don't feel comfortable which I'd think is more of a worse scenario if they're trying to sell me a car."

That is all you needed to say.

[motorheadkev]

To feel obligated to make a deal. We are the customer the dealers should satisfy us. They should bend over backwards to help us. I wish there were more Becky’s in the country, she seems to be the dealer for car purchasing.

good luck you will be able to order a car until @March 2017 when they close the order books.

[zapatista]

Car Buying 101:

1. Negotiate on Car Purchase Price Only-First.
2. Negotiate on Loan Rate after Car Purchase is Agreed-Or use your own.
3. Negotiate or Negate any "Extras" before Signing Final Sales Paperwork.
4. Never buy a Mustang when a Camaro is available.

Ok, the 4th one is a load of BS.

[BamBam2SS]

They've began inquiring for a survey... I have an app called privacy star on my phone that blocks telemarketers, reported scammers and the like as well as giving me a bit more details in caller ID (lists full name and city where the phone is from).

The last few days, I'd get about 3 a day... My phone would flash to tell me it blocked a "car survey" from calling me. So, I think they got clever and called from a different number. It pulled up Antioch on the caller ID and someones name... I answered and it was a lady asking a few questions about my experience... Like how did I hear about the dealership?, Did I test drive a car?, What kind of car was I looking for?, Did I meet a manager? and I answered simply enough... Then she asked Why didn't I buy a car in the visit?... I told her, I actually got very close to buying a car... Even wrote a check and have insurance on a car I didn't end up buying because I didn't like how they tried to sneak in a $5K mark up above retail on a year old car that was advertised below retail and when i finally got it taken off, they managed to sneak in a $3K warranty after I said no.

She paused and said "Ohh... Well, I apologize for that. That is not what we like to hear, Would you like to have a manager at the dealership contact you?"... "No no no" and that was the end of that.

I learned from this at least and this week hopefully I can apply my new lesson for when it comes down to getting the Camaro.

Thinking back at it now, I saw a lot of similarities in how they did things... In my case when the manager at the Chevy dealership took over. My friend went silent and looked down as he stood in the corner... He didn't seem all that comfortable.

They (Ford sales man and chevy manager) wrote on a piece of paper very vague numbers like for example "$47600 + Fee's W/$14K down = $599 a month for 72 months" then crossed things out as negotiations went on. They both did this, But now I think I need to ask for a more thorough idea on what the numbers mean. Make sure the top number is the price i want to pay for the car and get an itemized list of what those fee's actually cost to make sure everything adds up.

They both said "there's not much profit for us in these cars"... When mentioning they can't come down on the sticker price but for the Mustang when it became clear they lost the sale... They desperately tried to entice me to come back offering to take $3K off the MSRP. Leading me to believe there is at the least, $3K for the dealership to make on the cars sold because they wouldn't sell it at a loss.

If anyone has any idea on what the profit margin on a new car is let me know... I know through my lawsuit that Carmax averages $4200 made per car sold but they're not used cars and I've heard there is more profit in used than new.

[LSxWittles]

Nice read and glad to hear you backed out of a deal that made you uncomfortable (and was pretty damn shady anyway). I've never purchased a brand new car, buying a Camaro will be my first time and I enjoy reading about the experiences people have when going to purchase a new vehicle. Hell I've never even bought a car from a lot, has always been private sellers. I did however purchase a brand new motorcycle a few years back but I personally knew the GM and got the bike a few grand below MSRP (10,890 got it for 7k otd) so I didn't have to go thru the process of a salesman or anything. The more I hear about the buying experience with Becky, the more it convinces me to order with her dealership. Also helps that it's only about 2 hours away from me lol. Hopefully the deal with the Camaro works out for you and you get the price that you want and are comfortable with.

[BamBam2SS]

I got a pretty good offer on a 2017 M6 2SS... I was reluctant but because it doesn't have a sunroof, stripes and it's a M6 it was a bit cheaper than what I think my friend can get me on the white A8... It ended up being just at my set max limit.

Tier 1 credit, So I got to use a 2.9% APR for 84 Months (I know, but i'll be paying it off in about 5, I just want the extra cushion in case something happens and money gets tight) through my bank.

I went originally to look at a left over 2016 in pull me over red but it was "traded" the day before and they threw every discount I could get, even making me a costco member now...

It's a base black on black 2017 2SS, M6, Black 5 spoke wheels with MRC, NPP and navigation. Love it so far, But I have to make an appointment due to some paint issues I found on the quarter panels and to have them do their paint protection coat thing (5 year warranty so I figured why not).

[Richard0nee]

Glad it worked out at the end.. I had 3 Mustangs before my Camaro and came from a Mustang type family.

Both great cars but I'll regret it if I chose the 5.0 over the SS. All it took was one test drive and I was sold! Camaro looks sharper, more aggressive and oh yeah, the power difference was def there.

I would like to own an Ecoboost Stang again for a daily driver though. If the 5.0 had the same power, torque as the SS.. then I could have went with either to be honest. I had a tuned and bolt on 2014 5.0 and the SS still feels faster and it's stock lol

This isn't my daily driver so I can care less about the limited trunk space, backseat leg room. Visibility is just slightly worse than the 5.0 and both aren't nowhere near great vs my 98 Accord Sedan.

Love both cars regardless tho.. Glad you enjoyed your purchase, this car is a beast.

[TJay74]

The whole there is no profit in these cars is BS. Dealer gets the car for "invoice" price from GM, they then market the car at the sticker price of MSRP. That alone can be $1k to $5k alone in profit. Then there is also the GM "Hold back" money. That is the guaranteed money (commission) that GM pays the dealer for selling the car.

The "Hold back" is usually at least $1k and can be up to $2500 per car. That is before any dealer incentives, dealer cash or any other GM / manufacture money that is on the table on the back end of the deal. There is also financing money as well and incentives as well.

As said, always do your research and be willing to walk away. I don't and wont ever pay anything more than sticker for a vehicle, I don't and wont pay 'Market Adjusted" prices as they are nothing more than a scam and just a way for the dealer to make more pure profit.

Hold to your guns, if the deal stinks then don't be afraid to walk away.

[A7X]

Good read and glad it worked out. I'm getting a Camaro - don't know exactly when and still deciding between the 6 and the 8.

[enzia35]

Whoa, yeah, F that dealer.

How old are you, OP?

[Ian SS]

They really charge 3k markups on mustangs

[MrChrisLS3]

I like that..."We mark up all these because there's not much profit in them". That's when I reply, "There's two types of problems in this world, MP's and YP's, and that sounds like a YP to me."

[Vidgamer]

I have read about and noticed in person all sorts of scummy behavior, when buying a car. Really, I hope the manufacturers like that people hate the buying process. :-/

I also had the experience where a dealer tried to slip in an extended warranty and other crap and add it to the price. Fortunately, I had a calculator, and kept making them fix their numbers until my monthly payment matched theirs. ;-)