[DansZL1-1LE]

Thanks to everyone contributing to the forum. It has been a great resource of information and recommendations.


I would like to start a discussion on ZL1 1LE tires. I am going to open with several questions, but am open to any feedback.


I purchased my 2023 ZL1 1LE last summer. I have been driving on the OEM Eagle F1 Supercar 3Rs. I have to store the car in the winter. I only have 2000 miles on the car and I have about 1.5mm of tread left (5/32" new = 3.97mm)(I tried to get a recommendation on min tread from Goodyear, but no repose).


I want to track the car, but I do not currently intend to have 2 sets of tires for street and track.


Q1 (Temp): Interesting the dash display shows a color for tire temp. It is always green on my street driving. I am assuming green is good for cold temp, but as I understand, these tires need heat to grip. So will this color change to yellow or red on the track? Is that good? It would be great if it changed color when the tires are up to temp while on track real time. I did purchase an IR temp gun, but I do not know what the target temp should be.


Q2 (Pressure): I see in the High Performance manual has recommended cold tire temps. 26 psi for Road Course. 44 psi for sustained high speed. So what category would 15-20 minute sessions be categorized at Road America in Wisconsin? Any recommendations? Maybe this ties back to the temp at the end of a session, adjust tire pressure to get the target temp???



Q3 (Tires): I will soon need tires. I would like to stick with the Eagle F1 Supercar 3R, maybe the Pilot Sport Cup for longer tread life. I would not drive the 3Rs in rain, what about the Pilot Sport Cup? That could wreck a day at the track plus limit when I take it out for a drive. I am thinking about the F1 Supercar 3 or Pilot Sport 4S.


Q4 (Autocross): I am not sure this is a question. Autocrossing does not allow any heat to build or sustain in the tires. So I am assuming I just need to live with poor traction while autocrossing.


Ps, The ZL1Addons rock guards work great.



PPS., I did use tire cradles when I stored it. I have not noticed any flat spots. I found a set that are wide enough for the 325 rears. I had to jack the car up to precisely locate them.


PPPS., interesting thread on oil temps at the track as I have an A10.



Any comments on tires for street, Road Course, or autocross are appreciated.


Thanks!

[cdb95z28]

ANSWERS IN RED

Originally Posted by DansZL1-1LE

Thanks to everyone contributing to the forum. It has been a great resource of information and recommendations.


I would like to start a discussion on ZL1 1LE tires. I am going to open with several questions, but am open to any feedback.


I purchased my 2023 ZL1 1LE last summer. I have been driving on the OEM Eagle F1 Supercar 3Rs. I have to store the car in the winter. I only have 2000 miles on the car and I have about 1.5mm of tread left (5/32" new = 3.97mm)(I tried to get a recommendation on min tread from Goodyear, but no repose).


I want to track the car, but I do not currently intend to have 2 sets of tires for street and track.


Q1 (Temp): Interesting the dash display shows a color for tire temp. It is always green on my street driving. I am assuming green is good for cold temp, but as I understand, these tires need heat to grip. So will this color change to yellow or red on the track? Is that good? It would be great if it changed color when the tires are up to temp while on track real time. I did purchase an IR temp gun, but I do not know what the target temp should be.

Honestly, I do not recall seeing any change in color, but that's only because I never look at that screen! But know that "Warm" is ready to go for the track. It is stated this way in the owner's manual. I always keep the tire pressure screen up. When I see 1-2 pressure rise then the tires are ready. Yes, the 3Rs need temp to grip. Experience plays a part here too when knowing when to let her eat. The IR gun will not give accurate #s as tire surface temps will be quite different than tire carcass temps and the latter is more important. The tire surface can cool at a faster rate than the carcass and that will give false readings. Probe type thermometers are more accurate.

If you have PDR, then it will give you tire temps when you download your file to Cosworth's Pi Toolbox or Toolbox. But that would be after the fact of being on track. Either way it will teach you a few things about tire temp trends.


Q2 (Pressure): I see in the High Performance manual has recommended cold tire temps. 26 psi for Road Course. 44 psi for sustained high speed. So what category would 15-20 minute sessions be categorized at Road America in Wisconsin? Any recommendations? Maybe this ties back to the temp at the end of a session, adjust tire pressure to get the target temp???

That 44PSI is only for something like the Autobahn. It does not relate to track days, ignore that #. 3R peak grip pressure is 32-35psi.



Q3 (Tires): I will soon need tires. I would like to stick with the Eagle F1 Supercar 3R, maybe the Pilot Sport Cup for longer tread life. I would not drive the 3Rs in rain, what about the Pilot Sport Cup? That could wreck a day at the track plus limit when I take it out for a drive. I am thinking about the F1 Supercar 3 or Pilot Sport 4S.

You are better off with something other than the Michelin PSC2 for track use. Ditto for the 4S. The 4S is not a track tire. The SuperCar3 in your ZLE sizes would be a better choice, especially for a novice driver. That tire is wonderful on the SS 1LE. Street version of the 3R. The 3R is still a great choice as your ZLE was engineered for them but you have to be aware of the cold grip limitations. I've seen 3R guys loop their car on outlaps. I never done that but have found the limit when cold, haha. The 3R is pretty much almost a race tire. Can be sketch when cold. Treat them gently on that first or second lap, watch the pressure rise then your ready to rock. That goes a long way to helping their longevity too. I don't mean to paint them as a death trap when cold. YMMV based on your feel for the car and grip and your own driving skills. Some guys are bull in a china shop on track. Some guys have finesse.


Q4 (Autocross): I am not sure this is a question. Autocrossing does not allow any heat to build or sustain in the tires. So I am assuming I just need to live with poor traction while autocrossing.

Yep, the 3R is not a great choice for autoX. Maybe if the ambients were hotter than balls, but there are better autoX tires.


Ps, The ZL1Addons rock guards work great.



PPS., I did use tire cradles when I stored it. I have not noticed any flat spots. I found a set that are wide enough for the 325 rears. I had to jack the car up to precisely locate them.

I jack my tire pressures to mid 40s. My garage is heated but I still pump them up and it helps.


PPPS., interesting thread on oil temps at the track as I have an A10.

I have an A10 SS 1LE. The trans fluid level is critical. And yeah, as far as engine oil temps, my observations of my SS 1LE, the A10 causes higher engine oil temps vs the M6. The ZLE probably has similar trends.



Any comments on tires for street, Road Course, or autocross are appreciated.

Fresh DOT 4 brake fluid flush for the track is a must. Castrol SRF, Bremebo HTC64T or Endless 650 are all great choices.
Here's more info from GM:
https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...ackPREP-R3.pdf


There is tons of info here on the forums. Unfortunately , the search function blows. Just google your desired topic with camaro6.com and you'll finds lots of threads.
Thanks!

[arpad_m]

Q1: yup, your tire temps should never be past the NORMAL (green) zone on the street, or you're doing something really, hm, bold. The temp ranges are COLD (white), COOL (light blue), NORMAL (green), WARM (orange) and HOT (red), and yes, you will enter at least the WARM zone on the road course.

Unfortunately, I don't know zone boundary temperatures, I think I have an old Corvette chart, but this is a different platform, the zone setup is probably different.

Q2: "Sustained high speed" driving means 150 mph+ at wide open throttle for at least a few minutes, max speed runs on the Autobahn (or the "Autobahn" ). I don't think a road course where you only spend a few seconds, if that, at those speeds would qualify, and I have never heard of anyone going for these super high cold pressures. I'll have to check, but if memory serves, even GM didn't use these during the official ZL1 1LE Nürburgring run, and that track has a back straight that is 1.5+ miles long and took 30+ seconds for the ZL1 1LE, reacing 170+ mph by the end.

Q3: There is no tire that isn't a compromise in some way for two so wildly different purposes (street and road course), The F1 Supercar 3 is not as good on the track as your current 3R and still only okay on the street, while the Pilot Sport 4S is primarily a street tire, you will probably find it mushy and sacrifice several seconds per lap on the track (if you're a good enough driver, unlike me, that is ),

The Pilot Sport Cup 2 is also more of a track tire... but if you really never want to drive in inclement weather, I think you can live with these track tires on the street. However, treadwear will suck and it's counterintuitive to just putt the tread away on these super expensive sets driving on the street.

All in all, I think people who are serious about both track and street driving bite the bullet and have at least two sets of wheels and tires. If you only occasionally track the car, but drive it a lot on the street, I'd suggest the Pilot Sport 4S (I have it as well), this is the best street tire and is probably okay on the track, too, until you are good enough to be bothered by its softer, street optimized stature.

[DansZL1-1LE]

Thank you both for your time to respond. Very informative and helpful.

[Rapid_blue_zl1_22]

As far as tire choice goes, I would highly recommend getting the regular Supercar 3's. For your use the 3R's don't really make sense. The SC3's have 90% the same grip as the SC3R's, last much longer and take less time to heat up in my experience. I have a set of 305/325 SC3's and another set of wheels with 305/325 SC3R's and I see about 1 second difference between the two. Another great option would be RT660's as a dual purpose tire. I have a 3rd set of wheels with 305/325 PS4S's and they are great street/daily tires, but they suck on track. I run both the SC3's and SC3R's at 34psi hot.

[BanOne]

I will disagree with most opinions about the Pilot sport cup 2's for the track. I have used them for about three years now on my ZLE on a set of apex wheels, I am an intermediate driver and I do not have an issue with them during a 30 minute session in Florida. They are garbage in the rain just like the 3r's so in those cases I have used my Ps4S on my stock wheels on track.

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by BanOne

I will disagree with most opinions about the Pilot sport cup 2's for the track. I have used them for about three years now on my ZLE on a set of apex wheels, I am an intermediate driver and I do not have an issue with them during a 30 minute session in Florida. They are garbage in the rain just like the 3r's so in those cases I have used my Ps4S on my stock wheels on track.

My experience on the PSC2 is that they have more drop off in grip once past their peak vs the 3R. The 3R does not drop off as much and the 3R has more overall grip. And the SC3 is closer to the PSC2 in grip and like the 3R, they also don't drop off a cliff once past their peak grip. The PSC2 has been known as the one lap wonder. They deliver one great lap per session. Not to mention the Michelin price premium. Granted, Michelin has released better versions of the PSC2 that are more track focused vs the original, but again, they come with a hefty price.

I'm not bashing Michelin, they are great tires. I personally have a set of Pilot Super Sports (99Y BMW* fronts and 103Y Ferarri K3 rears) on a set of SS 1LE wheels for street use and they are wonderful tires. Better than the 4S in feel, response, grip, stiffness. Huge difference there, and I've driven the 4S' on an SS 1LE also. After that drive I was convinced to never buy the 4S for my SS 1LE. All the great things of the OE SC3 tire....gone with the 4S. Overrated on the SS 1LE or ZL1 IMO. Unless one wants a softer tire with less feel and response The PSS was at least equal to the SC3 in the above performance metrics. They were great in moderate to heavy rain on a trip to the Smokey Mtns last summer and excellent on the Tail of the Dragon and other fun roads. I led our group and my buddy said "dude, you are flying!". Is the 4S a better rain tire? possibly. But I had no problems on the PSS.

[BanOne]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

My experience on the PSC2 is that they have more drop off in grip once past their peak vs the 3R. The 3R does not drop off as much and the 3R has more overall grip. And the SC3 is closer to the PSC2 in grip and like the 3R, they also don't drop off a cliff once past their peak grip. The PSC2 has been known as the one lap wonder. They deliver one great lap per session. Not to mention the Michelin price premium. Granted, Michelin has released better versions of the PSC2 that are more track focused vs the original, but again, they come with a hefty price.

I'm not bashing Michelin, they are great tires. I personally have a set of Pilot Super Sports (99Y BMW* fronts and 103Y Ferarri K3 rears) on a set of SS 1LE wheels for street use and they are wonderful tires. Better than the 4S in feel, response, grip, stiffness. Huge difference there, and I've driven the 4S' on an SS 1LE also. After that drive I was convinced to never buy the 4S for my SS 1LE. All the great things of the OE SC3 tire....gone with the 4S. Overrated on the SS 1LE or ZL1 IMO. Unless one wants a softer tire with less feel and response The PSS was at least equal to the SC3 in the above performance metrics. They were great in moderate to heavy rain on a trip to the Smokey Mtns last summer and excellent on the Tail of the Dragon and other fun roads. I led our group and my buddy said "dude, you are flying!". Is the 4S a better rain tire? possibly. But I had no problems on the PSS.

I respect the opinion but must disagree on the one lap wonder, had a session last June after putting them on and ran 5 consecutive ~2:28 laps at Sebring. Last couple of laps that session were around 2:30 but that was due to traffic, then ran some more multiple 2:28's on the same set in early September. I have heard the 3r's are better for overall grip but that they do not last as long (I just corded the fronts of the set I put on last June 5 total track days), before the fronts corded this last month I was still around 2:30 all day but I was not pushing them hard.

[DansZL1-1LE]

For those who run additional wheels/tires (in addition to the OEM wheels), do you add sensors to the rims for the car to read temperature? I know they have the TPMS for pressure. Do you have any recommendations?

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by DansZL1-1LE

For those who run additional wheels/tires (in addition to the OEM wheels), do you add sensors to the rims for the car to read temperature? I know they have the TPMS for pressure. Do you have any recommendations?

I had track rim with the OEM tires on them. I did not put TPMS in those. Since you always need to be checking tire pressure in between sessions with an actual tire gauge.

For the street setup (stock rims with street tires) I had TPMS in them.

[Z OH 6]

The F1 Supercar 3 is probably the best compromise tire for street and track if you only had one set of wheels at tires, but I don't think they make them in OEM 1LE size. The Toyo R888R is another great tire both both purposes but its very expensive compared to the SC3 and it howls like a banshee which sucks for street driving.