Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
BeckyD@RodgersChevrolet
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Camaro Issues / Problems | Warranty Discussions | TSB and Recalls

Camaro Issues / Problems | Warranty Discussions | TSB and Recalls Report, discuss and diagnose any issues and problems with your Camaro, including warranty discussions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-22-2010, 11:08 AM   #1
The Stig
knows 2 facts about ducks
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 26,694
Question Warranty Dispute . . . . advice?

So about a month or so ago I started reading up on TSBs and problems that other people were noticing in their camaros. Turns out what I thought were just a bunch of little quirks of my car were actually TSBs and minor/major problems for the car. I love this car, and therefore have taken diligent notes about what gets done to her: dates, TSBs, handouts, etc. I've started to get fed up and I brought my complaints to GM customer service, well apparently my problems are pretty serious (I'm one dealership visit from Lemon Law for two separate problems). They are sending someone from Engineering to look at my car later this week. In short, I have no idea what I should do/say when the guy shows up outside of "I have a few problems." The serv. rep. said that if they couldn't fix the problems they would repurchase the car and I could get another one.

I guess I'm just asking for some advice,condolence, help, or what have you with this whole situation.Eleanorís Work Log.doc
Attached Images
  
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 11:17 AM   #2
ninety6
2xSOM
 
ninety6's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS | 2002 Camaro V6 vrt
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 274
I'd just be honest, show them that document, and politely explain the problems you've had. Good note taking, always a lifesaver in times like these...
ninety6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 11:20 AM   #3
motorhead
bars suck
 
motorhead's Avatar
 
Drives: yummy
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: central, Pa
Posts: 7,384
From the how detailed it looks like you are , I guess I don't have to ask if you got copies of all the service work that was performed on your car. This is needed for a lemon law suit if it comes to that.

Last edited by motorhead; 04-22-2010 at 12:22 PM.
motorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 11:21 AM   #4
ninety6
2xSOM
 
ninety6's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS | 2002 Camaro V6 vrt
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 274
oh, you if you don't have backup sensors, you wouldn't have the "Collision/Detection Systems" option on your menu. Its for turning off the Beeping. I'm 99% sure thats the ONLY thing there (can someone else confirm?). Does your manual also say you have lights for reverse sensors? some of the older manuals apparently said that (mine doesn't), but they never put them in....
ninety6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 11:24 AM   #5
brandotron
I am the internets.
 
brandotron's Avatar
 
Drives: dangerously
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 12,719
Excellent notes, this is a good example for all of us.
__________________
brandotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 11:26 AM   #6
The Stig
knows 2 facts about ducks
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 26,694
Quote:
From the how detailed it looks like you are , I guess I don't have to ask if you got copies of all the service work the was performed on your car.
Actually, as detailed as I have been I don't have copies of the service work. Though I'll be heading off to the dealer shortly to be requesting them. I really don't want it to come to a Lemon Law suit. From the conversations I have had with my serv. rep. it looks like GM wants this whole thing to be over almost as quick as I do.

Thanks for the quick replies.
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 12:19 PM   #7
clg_98ta


 
clg_98ta's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,701
This is interesting insight into the dealer/GM problem resolution process. Please keep us updated.
__________________
Black 2SS ordered 1/4/2010, received 2/19/2010



clg_98ta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 05:51 PM   #8
The Stig
knows 2 facts about ducks
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 26,694
Got a call from my serv rep a little while ago. Informed me that they have assigned me a regional rep who will be talking to the dealership and with me about getting all this fixed. I told her I have a road trip (driving home after the semester ends) on May 10th that is about 5 ish to 6 hours and that I was not comfortable driving my car that long of a period with the transmission and brakes acting up. So essentially that's their due date for a solution, which as it was explained to me will be one of two options. (A) they fix Eleanor (B) They give me a new 2010 camaro that is the same as Eleanor and/or better. It's amazing how nice the customer serv rep people get when you have 2 pages of carefully noted service dates and a dozen or so print outs of the service records. I guess being an obsessive note taker have finally come in handy.

I'll fill you guys in with more as soon as I know what is happening.
__________________
Click to view my build thread
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 11:39 AM   #9
The Stig
knows 2 facts about ducks
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 26,694
Update:

Yes, I know that this thread is dead but a couple people asked for updates so here it goes.

My regional service rep (elizabeth, very nice girl first off) got me an appointment at my dealers for when the GM regional executive engineer (pretty sure that's not his real title) would be there. He and I are going for a test drive on Thursday, at which point IF I can get the problems to occur while he is in the car then Eleanor is in the shop and hopefully gets fixed. If nothing happens then I will most likely be handing her over to them anyways with full permission to drive her around (reasonably of course) to get the problems to show up.

If/when they find the problems they will attempt to fix/determine what the next course of action is. One of which I've been told is a total inspection/take apart the whole car, double check every part, put back together/or I have to go through a whole bunch of their lemon law legal channels and find some sort of agreement with them.
__________________
Click to view my build thread
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 06:03 PM   #10
nashstat
 
Drives: 2SS Camaro
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 432
Def keep us update on the progress. Thx.
nashstat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 08:31 PM   #11
O2BQIK
 
Drives: 1991 Camaro RS
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 596
Not to rain on your parade or anything, but have you checked the language of the lemon law in your state/district? In Texas it specifically states the following: "The defect or condition persists and substantially impairs the vehicle's use or market value, or creates a serious safety hazard." While I would be unhappy at having all the problems you've had, I'm not sure that any of them substantially affect its market value or create a serious safety hazard. I haven't checked DC's law, but anyway just something to be aware of.

In any case it sounds like you have GM's ear now so hopefully you will get these issues handled! Good luck!
__________________
2010 Camaro SS in black/beige: Sold. | '91 Camaro RS: Still the dream car!
'98 Camaro SS: Incon twin turbo. Sold | '99 Camaro SS: Heads/cam/bolt-ons. Sold.
O2BQIK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 10:31 PM   #12
The Stig
knows 2 facts about ducks
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 26,694
Quote:
Not to rain on your parade or anything, but have you checked the language of the lemon law in your state/district?
Yes I checked, I took my notes out of habit/love for the car and when I started seeing a pattern I looked up all the information (lemon law, TSB, problems other people have seen, etc). The car was bought in Northern Va, but Va none the less, so Va lemon laws apply. Which are:



1. The same nonconformity has been subject to repair three or more times by the manufacturer, its agents or its authorized dealers and the same nonconformity continues to exist;

2. The nonconformity is a serious safety defect and has been subject to repair one or more times by the manufacturer, its agent or its authorized dealer and the same nonconformity continues to exist; or

3. The motor vehicle is out of service due to repair for a cumulative total of thirty calendar days, unless such repairs could not be performed because of conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer, its agents or authorized dealers, including war, invasion, strike, fire, flood or other natural disasters.

I am dropping the car off on Thursday, day 17, and they requested to keep it over the weekend and then some. This will also be the third time she has been in the shop for both the squeaking breaks and the transmission. Personally I find that when a high squeaking sound comes from the brakes to be pretty annoying. My question to you I guess is, would you buy a new car if the brakes squealed during the test drive? If no, then that is considered to have decreased the cars market value. Same logic for the transmission.

Final point in lemon law for Va (and most states) is that the company, GM/Chevrolet, has 15 days upon your notice to them of the problems to make a final repair. If a repair cannot be made and the problems are within reason to be considered to decrease the car in market value then a lemon suit can be filed.

Also, sorry about the length. I didn't mean to rant, but after Chevrolet blew me off for 2 weeks I was pretty motivated to know my rights and what actions I could follow to get my car fixed.
__________________
Click to view my build thread
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2010, 11:15 AM   #13
The Stig
knows 2 facts about ducks
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 26,694
Had the ride along today. The mechanic wasn't hearing anything pretty much. His determination was that the car was fine and all of my problems are natural for the car.

The brake pad squeaking was nothing to do with the pads or brakes, those are fine. It is apparently coming from water/,moisture being boiled off of the pads throughout the day. I kind of took that information as shenanigans, but I have no real knowledge of brakes/rotors/pads/etc so if someone wants to let me know if his claim is legit thank you in advance.

The lurching forward while going from start to drive is "tightening of the line." To me that just sounds like Pig Latin, so a translation of what he was trying to get at would be nice. The car only lurched a little bit, which is why I think he said it was normal. Now the big lurches that I feel every once in a while are a problem, but he didn't see it so it doesn't exist. Had he seen the big lurches then he said the best plan would be to take the engine and tranny apart, look at them/fix them, and rebuild.

All in all, I'm kind of just giving up on the dealer here and having another one look into this when I get home. All of the mechanics keep telling me "its not a big problem, bring it back when it is." Why would I want to do that? I don't see why fixing a problem before it becomes a serious problem is so foreign to Chevrolet. Again, insight about how/why they won't look into my "small problems" would be great.
__________________
Click to view my build thread
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2010, 08:58 AM   #14
Deerta
 
Deerta's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 1LE
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 41
Maybe your just to anal about your car. Its meant to be driven not looked under a microscope.
Deerta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2010, 09:15 AM   #15
2SSmeCamaro
 
2SSmeCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RSM6 Camaro Inferno Orange
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles/Ridgecrest
Posts: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deerta View Post
Maybe your just to anal about your car. Its meant to be driven not looked under a microscope.
+1 , no offense intended
__________________
2SSmeCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2010, 09:43 AM   #16
firestone_ss
 
firestone_ss's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 camaro ss
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tacoma WA
Posts: 726
after doing this for a living i will tell you this,if the problem doesnt fully present itself when looking for it it can sometimes be impossible to locate the fault,this doesnt mean there idiots just simply a very intermitent issue,as techs we really dont have any magic wands that can see everything wrong on the car sometime you truly do have to wait till the issue gets worse but along the way you have documented the issues so the dealer knows its ongoing,lastly i dont know what kind of person you are or about but i have seen people that do at times,feel and hear things on their cars that are totally normal but feel they are problems in these instances i recomend a second opinion to ease the mind,i think your car will be fine just be patient sometimes are cars dont like to cooperate with us lol
firestone_ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2010, 09:53 AM   #17
thecamaroguy
 
thecamaroguy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/1967 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 538
What are you hoping to get about the so called "Missing Options" The personal climate controls, lighting, etc?

Did you not see the "Some options not available on all models"
__________________
Thanks,
thecamaroguy

2010 Camaro 2SS - CGM
1967 Camaro SS350 - Primer

Proud to say I have always owned a Camaro! A Camaro has been my Daily driver since I started driving!
thecamaroguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2010, 10:57 AM   #18
The Stig
knows 2 facts about ducks
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 26,694
Yes, I'm anal about my car. So no worries not offended. I do drive her, but she has these problems. Eleanor was/is my entire life savings, which wasn't much as I am 20. I work part time at school and 60 some hours a week during the summer just so I can pay for her and for the insurance. Which I have to piggy back off of my dad's because I can't afford insurance on my own. Now I understand that this metaphor probably won't get across to you guys as it does to me, but that's OK. Imagine your kid has a bad cough, but he only coughs 2 or 3 times every other day. He's been coughing like that for 3 months, so he might have something right? The pediatrician says that she can't do anything until he gets worse, understandable no one has a magic wand to make life better. But wouldn't you go out and buy some cough drops/medicine/children's Nyquil for the kid? Eleanor's my baby, I just want her to be healthy. I may be anal about my car, but their is nothing healthy about brakes squealing and lurching forward.

I'm just an overprotective parent, and I doubt that is going to change any time soon.
__________________
Click to view my build thread
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2010, 11:46 AM   #19
Deerta
 
Deerta's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 1LE
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger View Post
Yes, I'm anal about my car. So no worries not offended. I do drive her, but she has these problems. Eleanor was/is my entire life savings, which wasn't much as I am 20. I work part time at school and 60 some hours a week during the summer just so I can pay for her and for the insurance. Which I have to piggy back off of my dad's because I can't afford insurance on my own. Now I understand that this metaphor probably won't get across to you guys as it does to me, but that's OK. Imagine your kid has a bad cough, but he only coughs 2 or 3 times every other day. He's been coughing like that for 3 months, so he might have something right? The pediatrician says that she can't do anything until he gets worse, understandable no one has a magic wand to make life better. But wouldn't you go out and buy some cough drops/medicine/children's Nyquil for the kid? Eleanor's my baby, I just want her to be healthy. I may be anal about my car, but their is nothing healthy about brakes squealing and lurching forward.

I'm just an overprotective parent, and I doubt that is going to change any time soon.

If you do a search you will see the brakes do squeek and brakes with metallic shoes will do that some. You keep saying lurching forward define "lurching".

In regards to your kid being sick metaphor, if the doc cant fix him/her in a few tries do you trade him/her in for a new kid since they cant find whats wrong with it? No you dont you enjoy the time you have with him/her and make the best of it.

The reason why I'm even posting in this thread and I work for a rather large company and I'm in the customer service line of work. I have dealt with people like you and no matter what is done its not good enough. So if they decide to replace your car how long will it take for you to find something wrong with that one?
Deerta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2010, 11:55 AM   #20
Dr Jkel
and MR. HYDE
 
Dr Jkel's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS RJT/BLK 6Spd Man
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Oxford, Alabama
Posts: 4,461
I don't know about the OP, but I am sure that most people who buy a brand new car are anal about it and if the performance, characteristics or whatever change after a few months of driving, I am sure the ALL on this forum would take it back to the dealer, especially if you have not done major mods.

If it were me I would keep track of when it happens, time of day, driving conditions etc... so as to try and duplicate it for the dealer. It may be a pain right now, but if it is something major at least you have it documented now.

As far as the Customer Service comment, it is way off base. If you buy something and it does not work as advertised it should be fixed, that is what customer service is all about, if you want customer service go to Adam's polishes, Now that is customer service at it's best.
__________________
MUSTANG...Like Bringing a Hot Dog to a Steak Dinner....There is no comparison.
Dr Jkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2010, 04:55 PM   #21
O2BQIK
 
Drives: 1991 Camaro RS
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 596
I think most of us understand being overprotective and anal about your car; most of us are too! But...I think what some of us are trying to say in as helpful way as possible, is that these issues may not really be issues...they may actually be perfectly normal. It is normal for a car with an automatic transmission to lurch forward a little when you put it in gear. Every one I've ever driven does that. Maybe yours is doing it MORE than normal, I wouldn't know since I'm not there, but maybe your expectation isn't quite lined up with reality. A certain amount of squeaking from the brakes is also normal due to the metallic pads being used. If your expectation is that the brakes are 100% silent at all times, then your expectation may be the issue. If on the other hand you understand some noise but they are constantly making noises or the noises are very loud, maybe there is an issue. But for both of these things, try to understand the dealer's point of view...you're complaining of two things which are fully expected to them. If you can't demonstrate how it's worse than "normal" then I think it's to be expected that they don't take any further action.

Again not trying to tick you off, just trying to help you enjoy your car!
__________________
2010 Camaro SS in black/beige: Sold. | '91 Camaro RS: Still the dream car!
'98 Camaro SS: Incon twin turbo. Sold | '99 Camaro SS: Heads/cam/bolt-ons. Sold.
O2BQIK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 01:07 PM   #22
The Stig
knows 2 facts about ducks
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 26,694
Thanks for the responses guys, don't worry you aren't ticking me off at all. Just to run through some questions that I've been asked. The lurching forward is almost/exactly the same as if I had stalled out on a manual transmission. When it acts up it is worse than the normal feeling from a auto transmission. It is not that I am looking for a new car, I just want a working one. I mean she's brand new, I just figure that certain things shouldn't be acting up after 6 months. The squeaking brakes is beyond what normal bresbos do. When I first brought up the issue I was directed towards a tech and he showed me the TSB. Which called for replacement of the brake pads with ones that had a lower metal concentration. Fixing the squeaking, and when I say squeaking I mean I can hear it over my music when I have the volume at 20.

I get that you guys are trying to help, and I do appreciate it. I can tell you that I'm not being overly paranoid. Something is legitemitly wrong with her. I just need the dealer to see the problems once and they'll understand what I mean.
__________________
Click to view my build thread
The Stig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 01:24 PM   #23
IROCanSS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 89 IROC 350
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Back roads, southern Ohio
Posts: 12,518
All autos "lurch" a little when you go from N to D... esp ones with 400 ft-lb of torque.
IROCanSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 05:59 PM   #24
camaros and vettes
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 IBM Camaro 2008 Corvette
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tiffin,Iowa
Posts: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger View Post
Yes, I'm anal about my car. So no worries not offended. I do drive her, but she has these problems. Eleanor was/is my entire life savings, which wasn't much as I am 20. I work part time at school and 60 some hours a week during the summer just so I can pay for her and for the insurance. Which I have to piggy back off of my dad's because I can't afford insurance on my own. Now I understand that this metaphor probably won't get across to you guys as it does to me, but that's OK. Imagine your kid has a bad cough, but he only coughs 2 or 3 times every other day. He's been coughing like that for 3 months, so he might have something right? The pediatrician says that she can't do anything until he gets worse, understandable no one has a magic wand to make life better. But wouldn't you go out and buy some cough drops/medicine/children's Nyquil for the kid? Eleanor's my baby, I just want her to be healthy. I may be anal about my car, but their is nothing healthy about brakes squealing and lurching forward.

I'm just an overprotective parent, and I doubt that is going to change any time soon.
hey man i am right there with you!!! its my car i do my part by paying for it, so they should do there part by making it what you are paying for. i have been to two dealers for a problem with mine and they both tell me not to worry about, i beg your pardon this is my car it should be to my liking. they get paid to fix them, so they need to do there part as well. we all stuck it out with gm and bought there products, they need to stick with us and make sure we stay happy!! these are just my thoughts that i am sure will get flammed pretty hard but oh well. i just want you to know i am WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!
camaros and vettes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 06:04 PM   #25
camaros and vettes
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 IBM Camaro 2008 Corvette
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tiffin,Iowa
Posts: 561
i have had my car a year, the brakes have yet to make any noise.
camaros and vettes is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Those with LT's, RESET your check engine light! TAG UR IT Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 107 08-18-2010 01:51 AM
brand new Camaro has warranty history and work performed??? full of days Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions 13 12-09-2009 10:13 AM
Undetectable Tunes - What You Should Know kelley@vectormotorsports V8 Bolt-Ons & Tunes 159 09-18-2009 02:18 PM
Lifetime Powertrain Waranty....from Chrysler?!!? Mr. Wyndham General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 22 08-16-2007 04:16 PM
GM Adds Used-Car Powertrain Warranty KILLER74Z28 General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 3 02-06-2007 07:56 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.