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Originally Posted by BumblebeeAmigo
That doesnt make logical sense though if their job is to make money, and the argument I'm referring to is that some people just want the "best" camaro and it doesnt matter what else is out there, then it seems foolish to waste the investment on making one THIS good. making one that was 500 HP with a few other tweaks based on the LS3 would still capture this entire proposed market, yet would make a larger PROFIT at a lower cost. If the goal is to make money, why would they spend so much time and money eating into their profit margins to make an even BETTER car than they have to to be "king of the camaros"? a company doesnt just do that "just because"- no they do that for one reason and one reason only, because they think they will get more buyers and more profit for doing it. therefore that disproves that the marketing goal of the ZL1 is simply to be king of the camaros and to be the best camaro ever, grabbing the people who just want something better than the SS.
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Isn't the "Best Camaro Ever" and the "King Camaro" synonymous? It is to me...and perhaps that's a source of our debate, here....are we saying the same things?
When they propose a new car...when any company for that matter proposes a new product based on an existing one, it's usually supported in part by a dedication to make some more money off of it. Otherwise there has to be a DANG good PR reason to do it.
To make a quick note on the 500hp thing....they can't, and still keep the engine emissions-legal. If they could, you'd already see it in the GS Corvette...or model-year upgrades in the SS and standard Vette...
The most direct competition is the Mustang GT500. They are, however, seeming to target aspects of many entry-level supercars in the market...and with good reason. The GT500, though impressive, cannot make some of these claims with a straight face. The ZL1 can. And it's sorta like peer pressure....would you rather buy a car in the company of...itself? Or one that can nip the heels of some of the world's prestigious "supercars"?
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Originally Posted by BumblebeeAmigo
Really? Why would they make it "the best" if the target market doesnt care? (as initially proposed?) and yes in that scenario they would suffer financially for it. If I could make something for $5 and sell it for $45, or make something for $15 and sell it for $50, and exactly 500 people are going to buy it no matter what, which one would I make? I'd definately make the $5 one and sell it for $45.. therefore investing in anything more than a product needs to be is foolish.
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I didn't propose that the target audience didn't care. So maybe this is another source of our debate here. I believe the Corvette and Camaro target very different groups of people. But I don't believe the ZL1 will only appeal to those with blinders on.
It'll HAVE to compete. And it'll have to prove itself a value for the money customers will need to pay to drive away in one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BumblebeeAmigo
The audi R8 is over 100k, while the S5 is 55k. thats what keeps those out of market, plus the S5 is more in the market of the CTS-V, not the R8...
I think if they dropped the price to 55k on the R8 a lot of S5 buyers WOULD buy the R8.
Yeah...I agree...It was a weak comparison, but I couldn't really think of much else outside of 370z nismo and gtr...
heck, if the base corvette as currently listed was $38k, I'd be driving one now instead of the SS camaro, so I find it hard pressed to take cost out of the equation completely. The S5 is a luxury car with some oomph. What is the camaro then, a sedan with oomph? maybe, but I'd argue its a budget sports car for most people. The ZL1 will be a performance car that will compete with other performance cars, and if the price is on par with the corvette, a lot of people will move to the vette assuming the performance is better on the corvette.
I guess we will see in time however! |
The main thing the ZL1 will have versus a Corvette is standard features. Compared to a 1LT (49k) Corvette...the Camaro is LOADED where the Corvette appears stripped. To get equivalent options you're looking at 58 big ones, at least, what with the suede seating, HUD, Dual-Mode Exhaust, and MR, to start....
The second thing that will separate buyers is the layout of the vehicle. The Camaro is much more comfortable to get in/out of...much more comfortable to drive (though I haven't been in the 2012 Vettes with the new seats, yet...)...and it has that added benefit of a private trunk and rear passenger seats. This aspect alone will split buyers very sharply...
The third thing that the Camaro and Corvette find uncommon is their reputation. Think bar-brawler versus fencing champion...Some people will DIE to own a Corvette, at all costs. Others don't give a crap and just want to go fast. Don't underestimate a person's character in the buying process....
Now...I'm not goofy enough to pretend there will be NO cross-shopping...it's bound to happen in some capacity or another. But I think it will be very rare compared to Fusion vs Malibu, or Camaro vs Mustang.
I hope I clarified what I was thinking better...there seems to have been some confusion earlier...