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Originally Posted by GREY03COBRA
Old enough that I can read... Please don't try and tell me that the "Unsafe at any speed" Corvair started this segment... What is this segment of cars called again?? PONY cars.. yeah that's it.. Why is it called that? Well maybe by the fact that Ford sold over 600,000 Mustangs in one year. The Corvair was not even close to those numbers. Then Chevy and Dodge wanted a piece of that pie.
Here's a quote from Edmunds.com about the history of the Camaro. "Chevrolet's Camaro (and its sister "F-car," the Pontiac Firebird) was hardly an original notion — it was a blatant GM rip-off of the Ford Mustang. But just because it's stolen doesn't mean it's a bad idea."
Mustang II, while not a bright moment in Mustang history did outsell the Camaro easily the first year it was out. 385,000 Mustangs to 151,000 Camaros. So, Ford was laughing all the way to the bank on that one. Also how can you bag on the Mustang II when the Camaro was so bad in 2002 that they stopped making it..
How about 2005 Ford creates a "retro" Mustang and they sell very well.
Jump to 2010 what does Chevy do???? Copy the Mustang again with a "retro" Camaro...
Another example. 2003 supercharged Cobra.. Spanks every Camaro ever made with the exception of the original ZL1... Camaro owners cry foul about "Fords supercharged engine"... What? The new ZL1 has a supercharged motor??
I completely agree with you on one thing and that it is a great time to be a pony car fan. Just give credit where credit is due.
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Not even sure where to start on this one....
You may have read about the 60s- but reading about it and living it are two different things.
In 1960, Plymouth introduced the Valiant - an economy car. Ford introduced the Falcon - also an economy car. Chevrolet introduced the Corvair - also an economy car - the difference was that the Corvair was a blast to drive. It offered European Styling with superior handling to anything else that the domestics were building (other than Corvette) The fly in the ointment? You needed to watch tire pressure. 18 in the front - 32 in the back - if you put 32 in the front- -well - not good! Golden Bear talks about the Futura as a response to the Monza - I'll let you read that part.
Pony obviously comes from the Mustang - but it's a term used loosely. The official industry term for this segment has been "Regular Sport" - some would say "muscle" -- some would say "Pony" -- and you are correct in that the Camaro was another entry in the competitive market in late 1966 -- there was a difference, however -- the Camaro was an all-new platform which gave the car better handling - but also a better -- and quieter - ride. One still needs to look at Firebird and Corvette sales during that period (if, in fact, the argument is 'sales'...)
As to the Mustang II - Chevy approached the performance market in three different ways - Camaro, the Monza family, and Corvette.
The 4th gen Camaro (and Firebird) wasn't 'bad' - in fact you may recall that it had segment leading straight line performance and handling superior to Mustang. Further, there was the Corvette. (remember - the Mustang is Ford's performance car - GM has two cars in answer to the Mustang)
The new Camaro was never designed as "Retro" - the team felt that it was not appropriate to make a 'retro' Camaro -- so a modern Camaro was designed -- with some design cues from Camaros past. (In fact now and then I get a complaints that we should have done a 'retro' Camaro rather than a modern Camaro -- ) You may find the book "Camaro - the Return of an American Legend" by Larry Edsall a very interesting read.