My thoughts on all of ZL1 and GT500 discussions going on.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

You should thank Chevy for the 5.0 finally coming back.

This comment would make sense if the 5.0 was not already in the plan for the Mustang before the Camaro hit the streets. It document fact the 5.0 was not a response to anything GM did. Now, that being said, had the 2010 Camaro SS not offered such good performance, I'm not sure we would have seen the 412HP number out of the motor.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by Phantom.5SS

Partly why I bought a camaro is the fact that when comparing cars I asked around and all the ford guys could offer was the same non-answer.."oh its the fastest car out there".. proof???? none.
Whereas with the camaro owners had intelligent answers regarding practicality/ affordability/ power to weight ratio and over all wether they were actually pleased with the car...and if not with what part.
They seemed to be a much friendlier lot of people as well!

So, where do you put all the people who own both a Mustang and a Camaro in your opinion? Only semi-intelligent and lacking "proof" of their convictions?

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by tooslow

This comment would make sense if the 5.0 was not already in the plan for the Mustang before the Camaro hit the streets. It document fact the 5.0 was not a response to anything GM did. Now, that being said, had the 2010 Camaro SS not offered such good performance, I'm not sure we would have seen the 412HP number out of the motor.

Yeah they already had the 5.0 engine before the Camaro came out BUT there never was any confirmation or any knowledge about the engine until after the Camaro came out then the following year they let it be known. For all we know Ford could have and probably would have continued to be lazy not offering very much difference in performance had it not been for the Camaro adding competition again.

[obzidian]

Fbodfather: May I make suggestion? How about a quick press release: " Chevy says, bring it!" 1/4 mile drag race. Best out of five, run what you brung, modern tech only. Then followed up with a track day.

The ford boys are sure to like a challenge. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

[GREY03COBRA]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

mmmmmmmmmm............how old are you?

Not sure, but methinks you need to go back to -- oh -- say --the EARLY
60s.......and look at the market......

And let's not forget the "Mustang II" --

It's not quite as simple as "Ford created this segment" and "Chevy has been playing copycat for the entire time" -

As I said on two other threads - this is a great time for enthusiasts - and competition is good for everyone.

Old enough that I can read... Please don't try and tell me that the "Unsafe at any speed" Corvair started this segment... What is this segment of cars called again?? PONY cars.. yeah that's it.. Why is it called that? Well maybe by the fact that Ford sold over 600,000 Mustangs in one year. The Corvair was not even close to those numbers. Then Chevy and Dodge wanted a piece of that pie.

Here's a quote from Edmunds.com about the history of the Camaro. "Chevrolet's Camaro (and its sister "F-car," the Pontiac Firebird) was hardly an original notion — it was a blatant GM rip-off of the Ford Mustang. But just because it's stolen doesn't mean it's a bad idea."

Mustang II, while not a bright moment in Mustang history did outsell the Camaro easily the first year it was out. 385,000 Mustangs to 151,000 Camaros. So, Ford was laughing all the way to the bank on that one. Also how can you bag on the Mustang II when the Camaro was so bad in 2002 that they stopped making it..

How about 2005 Ford creates a "retro" Mustang and they sell very well.
Jump to 2010 what does Chevy do???? Copy the Mustang again with a "retro" Camaro...

Another example. 2003 supercharged Cobra.. Spanks every Camaro ever made with the exception of the original ZL1... Camaro owners cry foul about "Fords supercharged engine"... What? The new ZL1 has a supercharged motor??

I completely agree with you on one thing and that it is a great time to be a pony car fan. Just give credit where credit is due.

[ffrcobra_65]

we forget...we now live in the "what have you done for me lately" era. :(

[hv92]

Originally Posted by Rice Killer

Umm, it's a Nissan. Buy American! Nuf said...

ummm.. camaro is from Chevrolet. What's your point?

It still is quite obvious that Japanese and foreign automakers are way better than our American companies. Our damn cars aren't even fully built here? how can you be so proud of "buying American" when it includes parts made in China with Chinese materials. And Plus, idk if you saw this, but yeah...



"american muscle" reallyyyy did good there huh?

[GTAHVIT]

Just so everyone knows...

12) Camaro vs. — Please keep in mind that this is a Camaro forum. We like talking about cars in context of the Camaro. We respect a great number of diverse vehicles here, but what ultimately brings us together is the Camaro. If you are not here to discuss the Camaro in a respectful and polite manner, please refrain from posting.

Rules can be found here.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/announcement.php?f=2

[2012ZL1]

never worried about mustangs before, ain't gonna start now...

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by GREY03COBRA

Old enough that I can read...

If you were around in the early 1960s, you'd know that for several years in the late 1950s and early 1960s Ford explored various plans for reviving some equivalent of the original Thunderbird, after the Thunderbird became a four seater, leaving the two seat market to the Corvette.

An impetus for Ford to take action came from Chevrolet, with the popularity of the Chevrolet Corvair, which was introduced in 1960. The initial Corvair had been positioned as an economy car, but the Corvair was much more successful with the plusher trim and sportier image of the new Monza model which included bucket seats and a floor-mounted shifter, starting a trend toward sportier cars with bucket-seats in all sizes from compacts to full-size cars.

Ford initially responded to the compact Corvair Monza with sportier Futura and Futura Sprint versions of its Ford Falcon. Since the Falcon models weren't as successful as Ford thought they could be, Ford created the Mustang. Most of the initial Mustang interior chassis, suspension and drivetrain components were, in fact, taken from the Falcon. The initial Mustang was essentially a Falcon with new, more attractive sheet metal. The Mustang was indeed prompted by the Chevrolet Corvair. And the Camaro was prompted buy the success that Ford had with the Mustang. So in a way, the Camaro was ultimately prompted by the Corvair.

[2012ZL1]

how true...

[truth411]

Originally Posted by tooslow

This comment would make sense if the 5.0 was not already in the plan for the Mustang before the Camaro hit the streets. It document fact the 5.0 was not a response to anything GM did. Now, that being said, had the 2010 Camaro SS not offered such good performance, I'm not sure we would have seen the 412HP number out of the motor.

I disagree, the camaro was approved for production back in August 2006, and everybody knew including Ford that it would have a Chevy small block. Back then the LS2 was in production so Ford knew the camaro would have atleast 400hp. Didn't the 5.0 start production after the camaro concept was reveal to unanimous praise and approved for production? Anywho its also no coincidence that the 2011 mustang got a 305hp v6 either. This is really exciting times but i think GM is going to come out on top, there a little behind since they started from scratch. But if the refreshed 2014 camaro (which is speculation at this point) comes with the 2014 LT 1 Gen V V8 backed with a 7speed manual, look out!!

[george]

Some of the guys stationed in Germany have been at the Nurburgring and have seen Ford running their cars. One of those cars were clocked at about 07:30's. Don't know which car they were running but many believed it to be the GT500. If so, that is a tad better than the ZL1. I'll bet GM knows this anyway. I agree with FBOD and Baylor, it's a give and take. The fact remains that the ZL1 is an AWESOME car. When I owned my 67 RS and later my '71 RS, if someone told me the numbers of the ZL1, I would have dropped dead. I'm staying with the ZL1 and my order is still in on the ZL1 (I hope it gets picked up soon). Just enjoy the muscle car wars. These really are the best of times when I think back.



George

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

If you were around in the early 1960s, you'd know that for several years in the late 1950s and early 1960s Ford explored various plans for reviving some equivalent of the original Thunderbird, after the Thunderbird became a four seater, leaving the two seat market to the Corvette.

An impetus for Ford to take action came from Chevrolet, with the popularity of the Chevrolet Corvair, which was introduced in 1960. The initial Corvair had been positioned as an economy car, but the Corvair was much more successful with the plusher trim and sportier image of the new Monza model which included bucket seats and a floor-mounted shifter, starting a trend toward sportier cars with bucket-seats in all sizes from compacts to full-size cars.

Ford initially responded to the compact Corvair Monza with sportier Futura and Futura Sprint versions of its Ford Falcon. Since the Falcon models weren't as successful as Ford thought they could be, Ford created the Mustang. Most of the initial Mustang interior chassis, suspension and drivetrain components were, in fact, taken from the Falcon. The initial Mustang was essentially a Falcon with new, more attractive sheet metal. The Mustang was indeed prompted by the Chevrolet Corvair. And the Camaro was prompted buy the success that Ford had with the Mustang. So in a way, the Camaro was ultimately prompted by the Corvair.

If you're going to plagiarize the wiki, you should acknowledge your source.