[Mr. Wyndham]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeellllll Now......what do we have here....

I definitely just read through 8 full pages of non-stop bitching with the occational injection of sanity. And now I'm more than a little ticked off - that all these good people I've come to know and like on this site - suddenly turn into a bunch of whiney little...*sigh*. Okay...here goes.

First off: KNOCK OFF THE NAME CALLING. I *HATE* it when my finger has to hover over the delete key.

Secondly...I hold NO grudges or ill will towards any of you(well, except for maybe Mindz, due to his use of the word "poop") - so don't let any of what you're about to read come off as personal attacks. They are NOT.

Thirdly. I had to read through all that...you're all gonna read through all this. So there, Ha! (of course, I didn't quote everyone I'd have liked to...or this really would be long...........)

Originally Posted by z2809

I personally think that GM WILL increase the price somewhat dramatically, to try to further separate the Camaro and Stang, like say $25k for a 6-cyl, and over $30 for a v-8.

That makes 0 sense. And you know that:

Originally Posted by z2809

This will KILL the whole concept....so if the price is increased this much, it will mean the end again.

Don't think that the guys at GM are brain dead. They DID choose to build this thing. (3 year-old joke...anyone get it?)

Originally Posted by decodethis

But honestly I think the GM's leadership has lost its touch to the Camaro buying audience. Isn't that what happened in 2002?

No. That's not what happened in 2002....well, maybe a little - I don't know the full story - since I wasn't there. But there were a number of factors that streched far from simply the head-hanchos at GM suddenly wanting to kill off the Camaro. And, if memory serves, Scott (Fbodfather) served a vital role in keeping that car alive for 4 more years. The program was actually cancelled in 1998.

And that is NOT what's happening now. Rick Wagoner, Bob Lutz, Ed Welburn, Scott Settlemire, Cheryl Pilcher, Tom Peters. I could rattle them off all day. From the 'top' to the 'bottom' GM is totally behind this car unlike any other. You'd be surprised just how much the execs at GM like the Camaro.
They may be more in touch than ever. And you are seeing it unfold before you. Hence the 4 banger idea. (yeah, that's right - they're thinking about it)

Originally Posted by Dan

No thats the Cobalt SS' job...

Anyone else think its strange that Peper told us that the v6 would be 300+ and Lutz is saying that the v6 will only be 260?? Hell even that engine in the transverse crossover is 283, I don't see how Lutz can be right about the output of the 3.6 in the Camaro.

As stated before...I do believe the author made an error in conveying his message.

Originally Posted by TheMadHatter99

I for one have faith in GM. They're a business after all and thus their primary goal at the end of the day is to make the largest profit possible. You do that by offering the best vehicle possible, so I wouldn't worry too terribly much. Even if they do offer a 4-banger entry-level option, so what? We'll all get the V6 or V8 and we'll have a lot of teenagers and mom's-in-mid-life-crisis driving around in the I4's. If anything we gain new "comrades" and keep these potential "ricers" from purchasing foreign cars.

We get our V8's/V6's, GM gets to sell more cars, foreign automakers lose business.

We win, GM wins, and American automakers all-around win.

Friggin' Thank God!!! One of those sanity injections!!

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

You guys are rediculous. Has everyone forgot about the 4 cylinder camaro's of the 80's. It didn't disgrace the car's rep then, why will it now. In the 80's we were getting over the gas crunch and the ecomony sucked (just like today) and the I4 only lasted a few years. I think a 4 is a great idea. It will help with the fleet mpg's and lower the price for non-enthusiasts. WE ARE STILL GETTING THE V8, whats the big deal. Yeah, maybe ricers will buy the I-4 turbo, but that means more sales insuring the future of the camaro. The more people this car appeals to the better. The camaro has to adapt and evolve to survive. Let's not forget that the car went on hiautus because it didn't evolve.

Injection number 2!!

Originally Posted by CaptianSam

WE CAN STILL BUY THE V8 SO EVERYBODY RELAX... its good to know that the v8 will get AFM hopefully this AFM will cover the charges from PREMIUM PRICING... ill pay a little more for the savings will go towards gas...

I don't think that the AFM will have that profound of an effect. BUT, lets take a moment and look at the word Premium. Where have you heard it before?
"charging a premium"
"Premium fuel"...nope, never mind that one.
"premium product"

All it really means is "more". And we all knew that. So relax Bob has told us nothing new. But there are some who believed that Camaro will be less expensive than a Mustang. Because such people don't understand that when a PREMIUM product is compared to an inferior one...a couple more buck seems worth it. Such will be the case with Camaro. It won't be thousands, and thousands of dollars more. It will most likely fall between $1000, and $2000 more. Probably less. Don't read too much into that word. It was a bad choice of words on Bob's part, imho. But then again - who knew we'd all react like this to a simple 7-letter word.

Originally Posted by SSOOCH

Bob Putz! Pull your head out! WTF, who wants a 4 cyclinder camaro? Is it going to come with a Berlinetta badge? Jesus, I've been life long Chevrolet Fanboy, and have been eager awaiting a new Camaro.

That can be as bad as you might think it good.

And I'll ask you to not be so rude to Bob Lutz. He is, after all, one of the main reasons the Camaro's coming back at all.

Originally Posted by SSOOCH

But I seriously don't know if I can buy even an SS model knowing that there is a version of my bad ass car with a 4 cyl somewhere.

There is your problem. Pure and simple. How does that make an impact AT ALL in your driving of your V8 Camaro??? It doesn't. No. Let me resay that - it does. But only in a good way. The folks that buy up a 4 cyllinder Camaro will be assisting you in your purchase of the V8 model by keeping the price down for you.
GM could have easily said screw it and pulled a challenger: You get mediocre performance for an insanely high price. Nope. They took the smart route.

Originally Posted by SSOOCH

I just think it waters down the essence of a Camaro. Hell even the V6 does that. Please, please rethink this.

Yeah, wow. This one I think I could go on forever about. Was the '69 Z28s, or the SSs of that same era any less of a monster because they also offered a v6? um....no. Why is that the case now?

Originally Posted by jaymz

I can tell you this: I WILL NOT BE BUYING A FREAKING 4 CYL TURBO!!!!!
I sold my POS jetta that had that stupid 4 cyl turbo.
No Thank You!!!

Well...then don't nobody's forcing you to. So I guess that ends that problem, huh?

Originally Posted by DGOETZ

The 2002 SS Hardtop, was just under $30,000 so the new car will be more than that.

I was not aware of that. According to many pricing guides I can look up if you wish...the Z28 came in around 22-23k dollars, and the SS package didn't bring the price to nearly 30k....Id be interested in knowing where you got that number from. Not calling you out - I'm curious.

Originally Posted by DGOETZ

Price a Pontiac G8 with a V8 and see what you come up with...I think you'll find it's more than $30,000...same platform as the new Camaro. The Impala SS is also in that 30k range as well.

Actually, the G8 GT comes in just a hair under 30 thousand. Well equipped enough to please anybody on these boards. FULLY equipped - will bring you to just under 33k. Same platform as the new Camaro. AND it's a Pontiac - which is usually more expensive than an equivilant Chevy.

Originally Posted by MCPOAJ

This is how i see it
.........
SS/Z-28: LS2 and don't deny it he said 400 hp V-8 WITH A CUTOFF

...wow we sure have a mustang fighter on our hands...

I'm sorry. Have you been living under a rock for the past 2 years? They aren't making the LS2 anymore!!! I mean, they are...but it's going away - and it's being replaced with the LS3. So...yes - I deny it.

Engine outputs are NOT set in stone. plug it into a computer and you can vary it from 20-30 hp either way - easy. This is most likely a new Gev IV variant. Not a new engine, but a variation on one already in existance.

Actually - I do think we have a Mustang fighter on our hands. Moreso - I think we've got a Care that will take on all Challengers, and killa Mustang or two in the process.

Originally Posted by mega_man_01103

i tell you brother for a young guy, you sure know how to make a good point!!!!

I thank you very much, Mega Man.

Originally Posted by Jay

On one hand you guys and FBodFather talk about tradition and joy of owning a Camaro..... well that all just went down the drain. How proud could you possibly be of having a 4 cylinder 'muscle car'?

I think you're missing the point. It's not about the engine. It's not about the performance. But about the pride in the craftsmanship - the the dependability. In the fact that you drive a CAMARO. which is more than anybody else on the road - ANYWHERE can say.

I don't forsee any I4 owners finding it hard to be proud of their vehicle. Obviously, you're not in the market for a 4...so how is it an insult. Many more people may be reached by this move - spread the love, man...

Originally Posted by Jay

I mean are you joking me with all this. And whats the premium pricing all of a sudden? What happened to competitive. I think everyone agrees that paying more for the Camaro is viable given its a better product....but the idea is to be 'competitive' not premium......

Again. Premium does not automatically mean astronomical pricing...but, I've already touched on that above.

Originally Posted by Jay

I suppose im done "having the faith'..... another couple months if there is no real concrete info I think im just gunna have to buy a base line vette or more likely a mustang gt or saleen i guess. I mean i dont wanna pay 40 grand plus for a 400 horse Camaro.

Its a sad day today.

I'm truly sorry for your loss then. The Camaro will be a car that you look back on and say, 'damn, I wish I grabbed one of those'.