[mbar]

Did anybody try this device?
http://simpsonraceproducts.com/hybri...lt-compatible/

Thanks

[JRL1LE]

I have seen guys/instructors using them at the track and the some magazine guys use it when testing cars on track.
This is really the only option unless you have 4,5 or 6 point belts.

This is the less expensive version that will work also.

http://simpsonraceproducts.com/hybrid/hybrid-sport/

[00 Trans Ram]

I'm not sure exactly what need this product is fulfilling. A HANS is meant to keep your head/helmet from continuing forward in case of a crash. If you have 3-pt harness (ie: stock seatbelt), you probably still have factory airbags, which do the same exact thing.

Furthermore, a car that still has stock seatbelts, also probably doesn't have a roll cage. I'd always read in safety books that if you don't have a cage, you shouldn't run restraint systems that hold you or body parts in one place. This is so that, if the roof collapses or doors cave in, you can be pushed around and/or out of the way (think - pushed down or over the center console). This would seem to restrict some of that movement.

Honestly curious why this is a needed thing.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 00 Trans Ram

I'm not sure exactly what need this product is fulfilling. A HANS is meant to keep your head/helmet from continuing forward in case of a crash. If you have 3-pt harness (ie: stock seatbelt), you probably still have factory airbags, which do the same exact thing.

Furthermore, a car that still has stock seatbelts, also probably doesn't have a roll cage. I'd always read in safety books that if you don't have a cage, you shouldn't run restraint systems that hold you or body parts in one place. This is so that, if the roof collapses or doors cave in, you can be pushed around and/or out of the way (think - pushed down or over the center console). This would seem to restrict some of that movement.

Honestly curious why this is a needed thing.

Moreover....the 4, 5, and 6 point harnesses don't stretch like a factory seat belt does in an impact. AND, you're likely wearing a helmet, increasing the weight of your head.

So the HANS device provides additional neck support, because the chances of whiplash/other injuries is greatly increased under those conditions.

[FlowForm_Wheels]

Originally Posted by 00 Trans Ram

I'm not sure exactly what need this product is fulfilling. A HANS is meant to keep your head/helmet from continuing forward in case of a crash. If you have 3-pt harness (ie: stock seatbelt), you probably still have factory airbags, which do the same exact thing.

Furthermore, a car that still has stock seatbelts, also probably doesn't have a roll cage. I'd always read in safety books that if you don't have a cage, you shouldn't run restraint systems that hold you or body parts in one place. This is so that, if the roof collapses or doors cave in, you can be pushed around and/or out of the way (think - pushed down or over the center console). This would seem to restrict some of that movement.

Honestly curious why this is a needed thing.

This x100.

I hate to be morbid but it's a safety concern... We've all seen pictures or videos of factory cars that have rolled over, usually the roof is caved in, maybe an A-pillar or such has been crushed down to the hood of the car. We've seen this before from time to time, it's scary to watch but imagine you were in the car, with a harness and Hans Device. You're pretty stiff in that seat, you're not really bending over and moving like you would with a standard factory seat belt where it's much easier to move around, grab something out of the passenger seat lets say. Because you're in a harness, if you do not have a roll cage and the car rolls over, you will be stuck in the seated position with a roof that'll soon collapse on your head, which could potentially kill you, or it could possibly paralyze you.

I'd recommend that if you want to go with the harness route, that you look into getting a roll cage as well, it's simply not safe if you're put into an awful scenario such as rolling the car over.

[mbar]

I was not thinking about using a harness, although I'm pre-tighting my 3 point belt to restrict body movement on the track.
My thought was to add a safety layer with the HANS that work with the 3 point belt.
Yes, the airbags supposed to do the job, but what if they don't deploy or your head goes in another direction?
Thanks for your help.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by mbar

I was not thinking about using a harness, although I'm pre-tighting my 3 point belt to restrict body movement on the track.
My thought was to add a safety layer with the HANS that work with the 3 point belt.
Yes, the airbags supposed to do the job, but what if they don't deploy or your head goes in another direction?
Thanks for your help.

When you put it that way...I'd be interested to learn if there's any benefit to HANS with a three-point belt. I've always heard it wasn't worth much without a harness...

[00 Trans Ram]

I've never had the discussion as it concerns a HANS. But, I can see parallels to the ones that I've had with several safety inspectors/certification persons at tracks (SCCA, NASA, etc.).

If you have a cage without a harness, it's dangerous. Without a harness, your body moves around the cabin (arms flailing, torso moving laterally, etc.). You have introduced some very hard steel tubes into the cabin that can seriously injure you if you come into contact with them during an incident. Therefore, you should not have a cage without a harness.

If you have a harness without a cage, it's dangerous. You are holding yourself rigid and upright in a cabin that has a high risk of collapsing (compared to one with an internal cage). If you can be moved, your body can bend with the intrusions into your cockpit. If you are rigid, you will break before you bend. Also, you don't want to have a fixed-back racing seat in a car without a cage, for the same reasons.

Basically, the unwritten rule (it might even be a written rule in certain sanctioning body rulebooks) is that you should have a cage, FIA-approved seat, 5/6/7-point harness, and HANS all installed at once . . . or none at all.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 00 Trans Ram

Basically, the unwritten rule (it might even be a written rule in certain sanctioning body rulebooks) is that you should have a cage, FIA-approved seat, 5/6/7-point harness, and HANS all installed at once . . . or none at all.

For your whole post...but I quoted this - seems to abbreviate things well.

I was curious, so I did some digging to refresh my memory - the ZL1 that went around the Ring had a roll hoop, racing seat, harness, and the driver used a HANS device. All things you mentioned.

[mbar]

Originally Posted by JRL1LE

I have seen guys/instructors using them at the track and the some magazine guys use it when testing cars on track.
This is really the only option unless you have 4,5 or 6 point belts.

This is the less expensive version that will work also.

http://simpsonraceproducts.com/hybrid/hybrid-sport/

That will definitely save money (half price), however Simpson is claiming that only the expensive version got tested and recommended with 3 point belt. Is it a marketing trick? I have no clue.

[FlowForm_Wheels]

Originally Posted by mbar

I was not thinking about using a harness, although I'm pre-tighting my 3 point belt to restrict body movement on the track.
My thought was to add a safety layer with the HANS that work with the 3 point belt.
Yes, the airbags supposed to do the job, but what if they don't deploy or your head goes in another direction?
Thanks for your help.

I found this little blurb on the Ferrari Forum we sponsor. Luckily it looks like they were talking about the exact same thing. Even better, I came across this post:

Originally Posted by Gary Milgrom

Disclaimer: I work for HANS Performance Products, makers of the HANS device. Thank you for the opportunity of posting in this forum.

The advice given above is correct, the HANS device has been designed to work with the double shoulder belts used in multi point harnesses. However, if you want a head restraint that can be worn on your body "backpack style" and works with the OEM 3-point belt, Simpson also sells the Hybrid and R3 devices. These are popular among HPDE instructors. You can find them on the Simpson website here: NASCAR Safety | Simpson | Car Racing Safety Belts, Restraints

Please feel free to contact me directly with any head restraint or cockpit safety questions.

Gary Milgrom
VP, HANS Performance Productss
gmilgrom (at) teamsimpson (dot) com

I don't really know anything about the backpack style devices, so I'm not going to be much help here.

[FlowForm_Wheels]

The Hans guy on that forum also posted up this video which may help. Haven't watched all of it yet -

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by FlowForm_Wheels

I found this little blurb on the Ferrari Forum we sponsor. Luckily it looks like they were talking about the exact same thing. Even better, I came across this post:



I don't really know anything about the backpack style devices, so I'm not going to be much help here.

That's pretty damned convincing!

(I've just bookmarked this thread for future reference!)

[JRL1LE]

The Simpson Hybrid should help prevent the neck snapping and basal skull fractures as it allows to neck to move only so far.
That would be a reason to wear one with the 3 point OEM.