Buy American

[AJC]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090129...20090129173404

[PQ]

I couldn't give two $hits about NAFTA, but we certainly don't want to piss of the rest of the WTO. Our GDP 40 yrs ago was 80% and now it's 20%. (a direct result of higher corporate taxes) We have to do something. They won't lower corporate taxes so we have to shore up somewhere else given that the new 'Stimulus Package' (ARRA) is going to pass.

But not sure what this has to do with this site. It doesn't call for buying finished product.

[Rodrunner]

Great, we got us another Herbert Hoover. His Smoot-Hawley Tarrif Act in 1930 raised U.S. tariffs on over 20,000 imported goods to record levels so everyone would be forced to buy American and thus create jobs. But many countries retaliated with their own increased tariffs on U.S. goods, and American exports and imports plunged by more than half. Five months after the Smoot-Hawley tariffs, more than a year after the stock market crash, the unemployment rate hit double digits for the first time in the 1930s and we plunged from the Depression into the Great Depression. Protectionism is not the answer!

[CamaroSkooter]

If I'm reading that article right and the people who wrote the article are legitimate, then good luck to Obama trying to prohibit the purchase of foreign steel and iron for any infrastructure projects. I used to be in the general contracting business, and I'm now working at an engineering firm, and I can tell you that if you flood the market with projects that are dependent on certain resources, and then force the projects to use "local" sources, you're going to end up sky-rocketing the prices. Steel and Iron prices would go through the roof and all that's going to do is seriously strain the budget of those projects.

I guess that's just one more headache to add to the long list of headaches I'm going to have for the next four years....

[Keedy]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

If I'm reading that article right and the people who wrote the article are legitimate, then good luck to Obama trying to prohibit the purchase of foreign steel and iron for any infrastructure projects. I used to be in the general contracting business, and I'm now working at an engineering firm, and I can tell you that if you flood the market with projects that are dependent on certain resources, and then force the projects to use "local" sources, you're going to end up sky-rocketing the prices. Steel and Iron prices would go through the roof and all that's going to do is seriously strain the budget of those projects.

I guess that's just one more headache to add to the long list of headaches I'm going to have for the next four years....

Hence the two caviats in the language that allow usage of foreign steel if it will deplete the market, or increase the cost of the project by >25%

Originally Posted by 'Buy American' stimulus plan riles trade partners

Other exceptions would be made if there was an insufficient quantity of US iron and steel of satisfactory quality available and if inclusion of US iron and steel would raise the overall project's cost by more than 25 percent.

[BigRigMike]

I think that I missed something. It didn't say we are going to raise tariff's. It says that if we are going to spend billions building bridges and roads then the steel and iron should be sourced from the US. And there are exceptions to purchase steel from other countries if it is necessary.
I think this makes sense since a large portion of the cost of infrastructure is in materials. Therefore it would be nice if the government tries to spend it on US companies first. Tariffs are not going to change it just says that the government will give its money to US companies first.

[CamaroSkooter]

Yeah, I didn't read that far. My bad.

But the point is, if you force anyone to use a certain supplier or group of suppliers, you're going to end up depleting local sources for other uses. The automotive industry could all of a sudden have a shortage of steel, or the industry I'm in (electrical transmission line design) will have even greater lead times on steel poles for new transmission lines, which coincidentally, are needed for another part of the bill where he wants to create a "smart grid."

[PQ]

Right, the GDP is mostly from private companies so to import so much is one thing but when we start spending TP dollars without spending American first.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

Yeah, I didn't read that far. My bad.

But the point is, if you force anyone to use a certain supplier or group of suppliers, you're going to end up depleting local sources for other uses. The automotive industry could all of a sudden have a shortage of steel, or the industry I'm in (electrical transmission line design) will have even greater lead times on steel poles for new transmission lines, which coincidentally, are needed for another part of the bill where he wants to create a "smart grid."

You said it right, driving up the price for the rest of industry sounds like a back door plan for the Gov. to get more control.

The Socialist Party candidate for President of the US , Norman Thomas, said this in a 1944 speech:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." He went on to say: "I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party.The Democrat Party has adopted our platform."
:flag1:

[CamaroSkooter]

For the most part, general contractors buy the majority of their materials local anyway. For a typical roadway the concrete, asphalt and reinforcement all come from local facilities. So, in that sense, the government money would go to American companies.

What gets tricky is, where do the refineries get their steel from? If it's a refinery that gets steel and iron from multiple sources, both American and non, then you have a complex situation. I can imagine it would be a pretty significant pain to figure out how much of the material you're using on your job can be attributed to US sources or non-US sources.

[Rodrunner]

My intent with the Smoot-Hawley Tarrif story was to point out how an overly zealous Buy American attitude can backfire.
A 25% cost overrun due to shortages is significant and of course the American tax payers will be forced to fund that extra cost, those extra hundreds of millions, to what avail? Why take it to that point?

[Kyle2k]

Sometimes I wonder if you guys would bitch about the Camaro too if Obama endorsed it.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Good. But Canada SHOULD be excluded from this measure. There's no reason to prohibit buying from them.
Still....Finally, one of them in D.C. gets it.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

Sometimes I wonder if you guys would bitch about the Camaro too if Obama endorsed it.

???

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Good. But Canada SHOULD be excluded from this measure. There's no reason to prohibit buying from them.
Still....Finally, one of them in D.C. gets it.

No doubt. One of the only 'freinds' we have left.