So...is the Camaro really that bad to race with stock parts??

[SSyanide]

Just read the GMHTP article on the Camaro "drag race" build...where they swapped the trailing arms and found the stock ones twisted after just a handful of miles and a few passes...wow...is the stock stuff really that weak that I'd need to swap the axels and trailing arms just to make some passes on drag radials???

[1977and2010]

Originally Posted by SSyanide

Just read the GMHTP article on the Camaro "drag race" build...where they swapped the trailing arms and found the stock ones twisted after just a handful of miles and a few passes...wow...is the stock stuff really that weak that I'd need to swap the axels and trailing arms just to make some passes on drag radials???

Yes and no, I have probably 20 or so passes on my LS3 with no problems. But there are guys who have been braking stuff, clutches, axles, trailing arms, and transmissions. The power that these cars make and the weight that they carry equals some broken parts. Wheel hop seems to be a big culprit in all of this.

[SSyanide]

I'm putting down 450+rwhp and plan on making some passes soon. It's an A6, and I never had any issues with the stock IRS/suspension setup in the C6 corvette, making similar power and A6 trans, no wheel hop, etc...The Vette has over 300 passes easily over the last few years. Maybe it's mainly on the manual cars?

[1977and2010]

I think you're right and the vettes are quite a bit lighter too.

[SSyanide]

yeah, the vette is pretty light compared to the camaro,challenger,mustang, etc..gm should've made sturdier componets, but there's alot of axel swaps in C6s too, going with the C5 Z06 axel rather than the stockers. Vettes, unless set up correctly, don't have the weight transfer to the rear that the pony cars seem to be born with either. I may try to make a few passes with the stock componets , being sure to preload / foot brake it and roll into throttle until I'm comfortable that the parts will hold.

[speedster]

The Camaro is a very heavy car and you have 500+ HP at the crank. Stock parts are bound to break. If you are worried about the trailing arms, you can replace them for a very low cost. Other parts cost more, but since you must have spent some good money on the motor you will also need to upgrade the drivetrain/suspension if you want to put all that new found power to good use. You gotta pay to play... Luckily, the aftermarket has been incredibly responsive in making the parts you need.

[SSyanide]

I understand the pay to play thing very well, that's not the issue. I just remember reading how much time and testing that GM put into the IRS, wheelhop issue, etc before this car was even produced and it's difficult to think even stock ones (i.e., no HP adders) are snapping axles , twisting rear trailing arms, and the like, on street tires, not even drag radials. The worst thing my 2000 Trans Am ever did to a stock part was twist the stock torque arm at hard launches, that was with over 500ft rwtq....just hard to fathom that GM put parts that are more flimsy than older Fbody parts into a newer, heavier vehicle they KNOW people were going to race.

[BMR guy]

Originally Posted by SSyanide

I understand the pay to play thing very well, that's not the issue. I just remember reading how much time and testing that GM put into the IRS, wheelhop issue, etc before this car was even produced and it's difficult to think even stock ones (i.e., no HP adders) are snapping axles , twisting rear trailing arms, and the like, on street tires, not even drag radials. The worst thing my 2000 Trans Am ever did to a stock part was twist the stock torque arm at hard launches, that was with over 500ft rwtq....just hard to fathom that GM put parts that are more flimsy than older Fbody parts into a newer, heavier vehicle they KNOW people were going to race.

6 speeds and wheelhop are the main culprit for broken parts. A heavy car combined with a lot of power right from the factory isn't too bad on the street but add a sticky track into the mix and those flexible control arms and soft bushings create wheel hop which is very destuctive. Trailing arms and axles are usually the first to go....

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Pedders feels if you fixe the link bushings, you will be fine. Replacing complete trailing arms and toe links is not necessary. It is the bushings that are the problem and not the metal. It is important to replace both of the bushings for the trailing arm and both the bushings for the toe link arms. Adding monster arms could add serious costs to a repair if you have a run in with a curb in the back end


The other weak link in the rear when hp or driving habits are beyond norm are the upper rear control arm bushings. These bushings allow a significant amount of fore/aft movement of the knuckle.

There is another concern of the upper control arm that is popping up that I cannot discuss yet, but will be able to soon


mike
dms

[toehead93]

It's not bad to race but for a serious drag racer it can be better and much lighter. I'm told you can save 100-200lbs by using a lightweight engine cradle, solid rear axle, and replacing the typical suspension components.

[Xtreme Innovations & Fab]

Hi SSyanide, As you can tell you are going to get numerous ideas and opinions on what is the strongest and what is really needed for drag racing. The thing that people need to realize is that it is very hard to have a car that is totally durable for the track but yet streetable for everyday driving or the weekend warrior.

I keep hearing that the GM drivetrain is junk , especially the rear suspension and that GM should have spent more time and effort designing and testing there stuff because they know people are going to be drag racing. What people need to understand is that if all GM was concerned about was the car holding up for guys like you and me taking them to the drag strip, they sure wouldnt have put the IRS in the rear. If that was the case they would have put a straight axle in like all the ealier models. Even at that, you still need to update certain parts of the suspension , just not as much..

I am just speaking from alot of experience of over the past 15yrs dealing with very fast street cars that I had, to customer cars I've worked on, we're talking about low 8sec pump gas street cars.

Remember, GM isnt labeling the camaros as drag cars, and we all know that the drag strip will find the weakest link time and time again, if you were at Camaro 5 fest you would have seen it first hand..

[caverman]

I had a bunch of wheel hop when I took mine to the drag strip for the first time a couple weeks ago. After getting back on the forum I found a few things I did wrong along with the recommendation of upgrading the trailing arms.

I just installed the Spohn TAs and they only cost me $213 to my door for their top of the line version. Although I haven't been back to the track yet to give it a try, I'm really pleased with thier product. You can get the fixed TAs for about $135 to your door. To me that's a very inexpensive upgrade and just looking at the factory vs aftermarket part you can see it's got to help a bunch.

If I still have issues at the track next time I'll be looking into the bushing upgrades. My only scare there is a rougher ride.

Here is my thread and a couple pics: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81353

[SSyanide]

Originally Posted by Xtreme Innovations & Fab

Hi SSyanide, As you can tell you are going to get numerous ideas and opinions on what is the strongest and what is really needed for drag racing. The thing that people need to realize is that it is very hard to have a car that is totally durable for the track but yet streetable for everyday driving or the weekend warrior.

I keep hearing that the GM drivetrain is junk , especially the rear suspension and that GM should have spent more time and effort designing and testing there stuff because they know people are going to be drag racing. What people need to understand is that if all GM was concerned about was the car holding up for guys like you and me taking them to the drag strip, they sure wouldnt have put the IRS in the rear. If that was the case they would have put a straight axle in like all the ealier models. Even at that, you still need to update certain parts of the suspension , just not as much..

I am just speaking from alot of experience of over the past 15yrs dealing with very fast street cars that I had, to customer cars I've worked on, we're talking about low 8sec pump gas street cars.

Remember, GM isnt labeling the camaros as drag cars, and we all know that the drag strip will find the weakest link time and time again, if you were at Camaro 5 fest you would have seen it first hand..

I appreciate all the input. I've been drag racing "street cars" for the last 15 yrs or so, almost all GM, some Dodges/SRT8s as well, many of them in excess of 500BHP and I just haven't seen the axle / trailing arm problem show up like what the article showed, especially at the power levels I'm running at, which is pretty tame compared to alot of cars around. I know alot of 05 C6 owners grenaded the diffs, which was improved upon in the 06 model year, but as for the Camaro parts getting tore up so easily...I don't know..it just doesn't seem right. I know they don't market the cars to be drag racers, but there has been, and will be tons of comparos w/ mustangs, challengers, etc..that focus on the 1/4 mile times of these cars, so you'd think thye would've known that and beefed up the parts that are more likely to break, like the axle and trailing arms. From what i've seen, a majority of the wheel hop issue is with the Manual cars, probally from dropping the clutch after revving up past 4-5K to launch. I plan on footbraking , flashing the converter to take some of the slack out, and then appling throttle. It seems to have worked with the past IRS cars I've driven with no breakage or wheel hop. I , by no means, am calling the GM parts junk, I just think they should've known what alot of owners would be doing in these cars, especially the SS versions, and made at least an option to go with a heavy duty set up for axles and suspension parts, but I guess that's what the aftermarket is for...

BTW, thanks for the pics of the spohn part...although the treaded area at the top linkage looks to be less sturdy than the stock part in the same area...maybe it's not, but the body of the product looks much more sturdy over all.

[caverman]

Originally Posted by SSyanide

BTW, thanks for the pics of the spohn part...although the treaded area at the top linkage looks to be less sturdy than the stock part in the same area...maybe it's not, but the body of the product looks much more sturdy over all.

Take a look at the thread I posted which has links to Spohn and thier Del-Sphere ends. I think they're a nice piece. I was sold after watching the videos. They do make a solid piece TA with a polly bushing using the same body. For $120 a pair I would at least use that one....just my take.