H/C ls1 vs bolt on 10SS - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

ULTRAZLS1 · 06-25-2010, 11:57 PM

Both 6 speed cars.

2000 z28 M6 H/C 420rwhp mustang dyno (prc 2.5 heads and ms3 cam). He has 3.73 gears also.

Both cars had about a half tank of gas. Both cars had no passengers.

We raced on a local air strip from a 40 roll to about 135.

We raced twice and it was an epic battle. We were pretty much neck and neck with me staying about a car ahead and winning by about 1- 1 1/2 cars to 135.

I previously owned a h/c ls1 f-bod and have also ridden in his many times. I am stunned. I thought for sure I would lose. His car feels faster than mine no doubt but it is not.

Anyway...I am sure most will not believe me...I really cant believe it myself.

Only thing I can think of is that his car is on the heavy side. It is a full option t-top car and my car is about as light as it gets for a 5th gen without serious weight reduction (aftermarket exhaust took some weight off) I also make about as good of numbers as you can get for a bolt on car....but shit I dont know...I dont understand it.

big hammer · 06-26-2010, 12:09 AM

something wrong with his car. nice kill though.

ULTRAZLS1 · 06-26-2010, 12:14 AM

It will break the tires loose at 70mph and it dynoed at 420rwhp. Not sure how that is not running correctly.

But yeah...I dont understand it either.

big hammer · 06-26-2010, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

It will break the tires loose at 70mph and it dynoed at 420rwhp. Not sure how that is not running correctly.

But yeah...I dont understand it either.

oh so he's spinning the whole time you're racing? sounds like a bad setup. a 420rwhp fbody should run alot faster than that.

Huggerorange73 · 06-26-2010, 12:22 AM

When will people start giving the LS3 some

VetteMaro · 06-26-2010, 04:23 AM

First of all congrats on winning!

Honestly i haven't had a chance to ride in a bolton 5th gen yet. But I drove a cammed LS1 Camaro, and shit that thing MOVES the hell out! I would expect a cammed LS1 to walk a bolton 5th gen, but anything can happen in a race!

SWAT 79 · 06-26-2010, 10:45 AM

Hey man, good run. You have about 15 extra rwhp, so that's account's for roughly a tenth and a half, or 1 and 1/2 cars if you guys were at equal weight. Seeing as how he's the heaviest it can get (without being a vert) and you're pretty light for a 5th gen, I believe it. Not too mention, his motor is 10 years old, who knows what kind of oil has been in there, or wear and tear, etc etc. You have a strong running car for sure

Black GT · 06-26-2010, 10:55 AM

I would have guessed you would have beaten him worst than that.

gameovergt · 06-26-2010, 11:00 AM

would have thought the ls1 would have gotten you!

ULTRAZLS1 · 06-26-2010, 08:23 PM

The car is VERY clean. It only has 23k miles on it I believe. He bought it with like 18k miles on it and paid about 14k a couple years ago. He only drives it in the summer and on the weekends. I installed the heads and cam into the car myself and also put in a centerforce clutch and new billet steel flywheel. Everything in/on the car checks out.
It has 1 3/4 inch flowtech headers into a custom 3 inch dual exhaust with bullet mufflers dumped at the axle. It sounds amazing.

He is a member on ls1tech screen name fast50hz (used to have a stang till I changed him lol) I guess if you guys have anymore questions feel free to ask him about it. I thought about getting a vid but that would be rubbing it in now...I am not going to ask him to race again so we can get him on vid losing...

He weighs 230lbs and I weigh 250lbs. He actually had a little less gas in his car than me also...but whatever.

I would guess the difference in the weight of the cars to be about ~250 lbs. He is probably over 3500 lbs being full optioned and I am close or under 3800 being a 1ss and having full aftermarket exhaust (I also removed the air pump so thats another 5-10lbs lol)

One other thing...his car makes 38x rwtq...so that helped me.

I noticed during the races that he had a stronger mid range...he would start to pull me a bit in the mid range but by the time I was winding out in a given gear I would pull back away. The race was very very close.

I also did the beeping (go on 3rd honk) so I suppose I could have had a slight jump on him also.

Big Hammer...no he wasnt spinning the whole time. But when shifting into third gear the car will get a lot more squirly than mine will (a chirp compared to getting a little sideways). I suppose this could have helped me a bit also.

UPDATE...he responded on ls1tech to a thread I started. You guys can check it out for more "proof" if you want. He thinks his car has ran rich/poorly since he first got the tune. But I am not sure it is a problem...the fumbling at idle is common for a car with a cam as MASSIVE as his.

ULTRAZLS1 · 06-26-2010, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black GT

I would have guessed you would have beaten him worst than that.

Hmmm...ok. How do you figure?

Looking at the power to weight/gearing/aerodynamics, I would have guessed a loss for me by a car or two.

But everything doesnt always work out exactly like it looks on paper or how it feels in the seat of the pants. I know that for sure now...from PERSONAL experience.

Until you go out and do things for yourself/with your own car all bets are off and you are just making educated guesses at best.

Black GT · 06-26-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Hmmm...ok. How do you figure?

Looking at the power to weight/gearing/aerodynamics, I would have guessed a loss for me by a car or two.

But everything doesnt always work out exactly like it looks on paper or how it feels in the seat of the pants. I know that for sure now...from PERSONAL experience.

Until you go out and do things for yourself/with your own car all bets are off and you are just making educated guesses at best.

only reason i said that was from what I see at the track the ls1 cars with cams and bolt-ons are a mid 12 sec. car.
Not trying to flame them they were impressive back in the day, but with todays cars they are out of their league.

ULTRAZLS1 · 06-26-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black GT

only reason i said that was from what I see at the track the ls1 cars with cams and bolt-ons are a mid 12 sec. car.
Not trying to flame them they were impressive back in the day, but with todays cars they are out of their league.

It is a 420rwhp car and lighter than a 2011 GT.

It is what it is I guess.

VetteMaro · 06-27-2010, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black GT

only reason i said that was from what I see at the track the ls1 cars with cams and bolt-ons are a mid 12 sec. car.
Not trying to flame them they were impressive back in the day, but with todays cars they are out of their league.

Cammed LS1s with proper setups break into the 11s pretty easily. Just ask all the little ponies

LoL, jk . Nothing but

for the stangs.

06-25-2010, 11:57 PM	#1
ULTRAZLS1 Drives: 14 Silverado LTZ Z71, 16 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Jackson, Michigan Posts: 4,418	H/C ls1 vs bolt on 10SS Both 6 speed cars. 2000 z28 M6 H/C 420rwhp mustang dyno (prc 2.5 heads and ms3 cam). He has 3.73 gears also. Both cars had about a half tank of gas. Both cars had no passengers. We raced on a local air strip from a 40 roll to about 135. We raced twice and it was an epic battle. We were pretty much neck and neck with me staying about a car ahead and winning by about 1- 1 1/2 cars to 135. I previously owned a h/c ls1 f-bod and have also ridden in his many times. I am stunned. I thought for sure I would lose. His car feels faster than mine no doubt but it is not. Anyway...I am sure most will not believe me...I really cant believe it myself. Only thing I can think of is that his car is on the heavy side. It is a full option t-top car and my car is about as light as it gets for a 5th gen without serious weight reduction (aftermarket exhaust took some weight off) I also make about as good of numbers as you can get for a bolt on car....but shit I dont know...I dont understand it.

06-26-2010, 12:09 AM	#2
big hammer Drives: 2002 ws6 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: manitoba Posts: 1,202	something wrong with his car. nice kill though. __________________ Bolt on 2002 ls1 Trans am--- 11.5 @ 121 (1.72) 2000 da

06-26-2010, 11:00 AM	#9
gameovergt G@M30v3RgT Drives: 2016 Mustang GT 5.0 DIB Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 213	would have thought the ls1 would have gotten you! __________________ 2016 Ford Mustang Base 5.0 GT DIBM/Black Accent Package(AUTO) (STOCK).

06-26-2010, 08:23 PM	#10
ULTRAZLS1 Drives: 14 Silverado LTZ Z71, 16 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Jackson, Michigan Posts: 4,418	The car is VERY clean. It only has 23k miles on it I believe. He bought it with like 18k miles on it and paid about 14k a couple years ago. He only drives it in the summer and on the weekends. I installed the heads and cam into the car myself and also put in a centerforce clutch and new billet steel flywheel. Everything in/on the car checks out. It has 1 3/4 inch flowtech headers into a custom 3 inch dual exhaust with bullet mufflers dumped at the axle. It sounds amazing. He is a member on ls1tech screen name fast50hz (used to have a stang till I changed him lol) I guess if you guys have anymore questions feel free to ask him about it. I thought about getting a vid but that would be rubbing it in now...I am not going to ask him to race again so we can get him on vid losing... He weighs 230lbs and I weigh 250lbs. He actually had a little less gas in his car than me also...but whatever. I would guess the difference in the weight of the cars to be about ~250 lbs. He is probably over 3500 lbs being full optioned and I am close or under 3800 being a 1ss and having full aftermarket exhaust (I also removed the air pump so thats another 5-10lbs lol) One other thing...his car makes 38x rwtq...so that helped me. I noticed during the races that he had a stronger mid range...he would start to pull me a bit in the mid range but by the time I was winding out in a given gear I would pull back away. The race was very very close. I also did the beeping (go on 3rd honk) so I suppose I could have had a slight jump on him also. Big Hammer...no he wasnt spinning the whole time. But when shifting into third gear the car will get a lot more squirly than mine will (a chirp compared to getting a little sideways). I suppose this could have helped me a bit also. UPDATE...he responded on ls1tech to a thread I started. You guys can check it out for more "proof" if you want. He thinks his car has ran rich/poorly since he first got the tune. But I am not sure it is a problem...the fumbling at idle is common for a car with a cam as MASSIVE as his. Last edited by ULTRAZLS1; 06-26-2010 at 08:48 PM.

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06-26-2010, 12:14 AM	#3
ULTRAZLS1 Drives: 14 Silverado LTZ Z71, 16 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Jackson, Michigan Posts: 4,418	It will break the tires loose at 70mph and it dynoed at 420rwhp. Not sure how that is not running correctly. But yeah...I dont understand it either.

06-26-2010, 12:22 AM	#5
Huggerorange73 Banned Drives: The REAL C5 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Norridge, IL Posts: 1,830	When will people start giving the LS3 some

06-26-2010, 04:23 AM	#6
VetteMaro Drives: 09 Jeep Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Detroit Posts: 115	First of all congrats on winning! Honestly i haven't had a chance to ride in a bolton 5th gen yet. But I drove a cammed LS1 Camaro, and shit that thing MOVES the hell out! I would expect a cammed LS1 to walk a bolton 5th gen, but anything can happen in a race!

06-26-2010, 10:45 AM	#7
SWAT 79 Drives: 2005 Cadillac CTS Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Jersey Posts: 448	Hey man, good run. You have about 15 extra rwhp, so that's account's for roughly a tenth and a half, or 1 and 1/2 cars if you guys were at equal weight. Seeing as how he's the heaviest it can get (without being a vert) and you're pretty light for a 5th gen, I believe it. Not too mention, his motor is 10 years old, who knows what kind of oil has been in there, or wear and tear, etc etc. You have a strong running car for sure

06-26-2010, 10:55 AM	#8
Black GT Banned Drives: 2006 Mustang GT Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 522	I would have guessed you would have beaten him worst than that.