2013 GT500 laps the ring quicker then ZL1

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

I don't understand why you keep saying the GT500 is thousands more expensive. GT500 starts at $55,595 (Ford's website) for the base model vs ZL1 $57,350 starting price (GM website).

Base model GT500 gets you 662hp/631tq. That is $55,595/662hp= $83.98/hp
Add the Track pack and Performance pack it will total $62,085. That package will put it on par with the ZL1s handling and will cost you $93.78/hp.

Zl1 is gonna cost you $98.88/hp straight out the door.

It seems to me that you never really took into into consideration dollar/hp. Looks like the Shelby is the better performance value upfront. But once you start adding all the unnecessary options on the Shelby, the price will jump significantly.

The problem when comparing price is that none of the track ready options are standard on the GT500. You have to spend about $64,000 to get all the coolers and everything that the ZL1 has standard to compete on a road course.

[1QwikZ28]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

The problem when comparing price is that none of the track ready options are standard on the GT500. You have to spend about $64,000 to get all the coolers and everything that the ZL1 has standard to compete on a road course.

Read my second paragraph...

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

It seems to me that you never really took into into consideration dollar/hp. Looks like the Shelby is the better performance value upfront. But once you start adding all the unnecessary options on the Shelby, the price will jump significantly.

Like Brakes???

Already said the Stang is faster, in the 1/4 and on most road courses. Every comparison done by Motor Trend, Car & Driver etc., the Stang price in "as tested" was always higher. Not that it matters, it's still just a matter of preference. Some folks love the Mustang and some are die hard Camaro. That's just the way it is in life.

I also stated that in my new Dec issue of Motor Trend in their "Best Drivers Car" comparison they picked the new Stingray 68K over the Ferrari 400+K price. Apparently they believe the Stingray is just a better car to drive, so obviously price meant nothing to them, although you could buy six Stingrays plus a years insurance and all appropriate taxes for the price of the F12! Must be nice to have that kinda money!!!


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[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

I don't understand why you keep saying the GT500 is thousands more expensive. GT500 starts at $55,595 (Ford's website) for the base model vs ZL1 $57,350 starting price (GM website).

Base model GT500 gets you 662hp/631tq. That is $55,595/662hp= $83.98/hp
Add the Track pack and Performance pack it will total $62,085. That package will put it on par with the ZL1s handling and will cost you $93.78/hp.

Zl1 is gonna cost you $98.88/hp straight out the door.

It seems to me that you never really took into into consideration dollar/hp. Looks like the Shelby is the better performance value upfront. But once you start adding all the unnecessary options on the Shelby, the price will jump significantly.

Those "unnecessary options" as you call them, are the only reason the GT500 is even in the vicinity of the ZL1 on a road course. That's why Ford sent the $64,000 version to magazines for testing. It can't compete on a road course without them.

I find dollar/hp about as meaningless as hp/L in evaluating a car's performance. There are simply too many other factors that determine a cars performance than raw HP.

Take the 1LE for example. It finished the 2013 Lightning Lap 0.9 seconds behind the GT500 on a 4.1 mile road course. They weigh the same yet the GT500 has 236HP advantage on the 1LE. What does all that extra power accomplish? 0.9 seconds on a 4.1 mile track. Oh, and the 1LE cost $37,000. Like I said the GT500 is a tremendous engine. If only Ford had a decent chassis to put it in.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

The problem when comparing price is that none of the track ready options are standard on the GT500. You have to spend about $64,000 to get all the coolers and everything that the ZL1 has standard to compete on a road course.

Let's not forget the one additional cost the magazines all forget, from the Ford owners manual. Dot4 brake fluid for track days. And at no cost, remove brake dust shields.

[Tob]

Originally Posted by Mwalterhouse

Even if the information provided is accurate, the GT500 is not a production vehicle, the Z28 is.

Originally Posted by shaffe

The fail is strong in this one

Shaffe, my apologies for the belated lol at the above quote. So here it is - LOL.

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

I was one of the retarded hillbilly inbreds who didn't opt for the performance pack and track pack cause I don't care about turning. (seriously, I have to get out and lift the rear end and pivot my car at 4 way stops)

My above comment applies here as well.

Originally Posted by Slapshot

..absolutely mind boggling how many people from both sites are incapable of objective thinking.

Just another slice of Americana, circa 2013.

[1QwikZ28]

Originally Posted by Normagene

Like Brakes???

Already said the Stang is faster, in the 1/4 and on most road courses. Every comparison done by Motor Trend, Car & Driver etc., the Stang price in "as tested" was always higher. Not that it matters, it's still just a matter of preference. Some folks love the Mustang and some are die hard Camaro. That's just the way it is in life.

I also stated that in my new Dec issue of Motor Trend in their "Best Drivers Car" comparison they picked the new Stingray 68K over the Ferrari 400+K price. Apparently they believe the Stingray is just a better car to drive, so obviously price meant nothing to them, although you could buy six Stingrays plus a years insurance and all appropriate taxes for the price of the F12! Must be nice to have that kinda money!!!


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What about the brakes? They perform well, it's the brake fluid that hampered the performance during testing. As stated before, simple fluid change resolves that issue. It is just like when taking it to the 1/4 mile track, its common practice to change the engine oil before running. Its just common sense.

But if you insist on constantly bringing up the brake issue, then it's only fair to bring up the ZL1s heat soak issue. See what I did there?

[1QwikZ28]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Those "unnecessary options" as you call them, are the only reason the GT500 is even in the vicinity of the ZL1 on a road course. That's why Ford sent the $64,000 version to magazines for testing. It can't compete on a road course without them.

I find dollar/hp about as meaningless as hp/L in evaluating a car's performance. There are simply too many other factors that determine a cars performance than raw HP.

Take the 1LE for example. It finished the 2013 Lightning Lap 0.9 seconds behind the GT500 on a 4.1 mile road course. They weigh the same yet the GT500 has 236HP advantage on the 1LE. What does all that extra power accomplish? 0.9 seconds on a 4.1 mile track. Oh, and the 1LE cost $37,000. Like I said the GT500 is a tremendous engine. If only Ford had a decent chassis to put it in.

Refer to post #171, paragraph #2. I did the dollar/hp calculations that included the Track pack and Performance pack...still a better value than the ZL1 on cost/hp.

You may find the dollar/hp meaningless, but I was making a point for Normagene that apparently thinks the ZL1 is a better value. All the "unnecessary" options I was refering to were things like Recaro seats, glass roof, navigation package...shit that does not make a car faster or handle better. I have no dog in this fight, as I own a 1999 Z28 that I drag race, so the GT500 would be more up my alley if I had to chose. But, I would not dismiss the ZL1 because I love the simplicity of the LSx motors. Can't go wrong with either car in the long run.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

Refer to post #171, paragraph #2. I did the dollar/hp calculations that included the Track pack and Performance pack...still a better value than the ZL1 on cost/hp.

You may find the dollar/hp meaningless, but I was making a point for Normagene that apparently thinks the ZL1 is a better value. All the "unnecessary" options I was refering to were things like Recaro seats, glass roof, navigation package...shit that does not make a car faster or handle better. I have no dog in this fight, as I own a 1999 Z28 that I drag race, so the GT500 would be more up my alley if I had to chose. But, I would not dismiss the ZL1 because I love the simplicity of the LSx motors. Can't go wrong with either car in the long run.

I understand what you're saying. I think all those unnecessary options in the ZL1 is why all the magazines pick the ZL1. Like I said; when they asked the Pro drivers they all chose the Mustang. I get the cost/Hp factor, but the Pro drivers pick the Mustang because it demands much more driver skill. One driver said something like "when you're driving the Mustang you sweat and work your butt off. The ZL1 is like a hi speed Sunday afternoon cruise, almost effortless and you don't need to take a shower afterwards".

So I think they pick the ZL1 for that reason as the better value because it's more of the everyday mans muscle car. Although from personal experience I think the nannies interfere a little too much whenever I'm making a left or right intersection turn. I really like whipping the ass end out sideways into the turn and many times the nannies just shit down the power. Very annoying at times. But I'd probably crash and burn if I drove it with everything shit off!


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[Normagene]

Oops. Didn't mean to swear. That's "shut" not sh*t above. Sorry


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[1QwikZ28]

Originally Posted by Normagene

Oops. Didn't mean to swear. That's "shut" not sh*t above. Sorry


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Lol, sh!t happens. I understand your point though.

[hockeylover86]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Those "unnecessary options" as you call them, are the only reason the GT500 is even in the vicinity of the ZL1 on a road course. That's why Ford sent the $64,000 version to magazines for testing. It can't compete on a road course without them.

I find dollar/hp about as meaningless as hp/L in evaluating a car's performance. There are simply too many other factors that determine a cars performance than raw HP.

Take the 1LE for example. It finished the 2013 Lightning Lap 0.9 seconds behind the GT500 on a 4.1 mile road course. They weigh the same yet the GT500 has 236HP advantage on the 1LE. What does all that extra power accomplish? 0.9 seconds on a 4.1 mile track. Oh, and the 1LE cost $37,000. Like I said the GT500 is a tremendous engine. If only Ford had a decent chassis to put it in.

To use the bang for the buck argument, I don't know why anyone would buy a ZL1 over the 1LE..anyway different discussion.

These discussions sort of remind me of 1998 when the LS1 found its way into the F-cars. The ZL1 group today sound alot like the 4.6 guys from back then. The horsepower difference between the two was so large that it pushed the discussion to something else. The Ford bunch hated the F-car driving position, handling, fit/finish, cat converter hump in the passenger floor...etc.. To them the mustang was a "better" car... But the one thing they couldn't deny was that the LS1 was just plain faster..

2003-2008 was just too boring, thanks GM..

Fast forward to today, and we have the opposite scenario for each side. Huge power in an older chassis for the mustang, and a more modern chassis for the Camaro but less power.

The horsepower guys won't understand why anyone cares about driving in circles, and the road race guys will point at the HP guys suspensions and laugh. At the end of the day choose what YOU want, drive it and be happy to have that choice..

[Normagene]

Sure is fun to reminisce! Funny how things just keep going round and round. Too many forget about or even bother looking back at history. It's all about NOW. Its crazy how fast things change. Henry Ford at a Pig Slaughter House was amazed at the efficiency of the slaughter line and how each butcher had a certain amount of time to do a specific task...... The birth of the assembly line! He realized at that moment the same could be done with the automobile. Which resulted in a dramatic price reduction and made the car affordable to the masses.

Then with our young men coming home from the war with a little cash in their pockets and inexpressive model-As it didn't take long for competitive Hot Rodding to start! Boys will be Boys and that need for speed is still being chased today! Crazy how fast these machines are today. Zero to 60 times in the 3 second mark! Monster size tires, traction performance unimaginable just years ago, computer enhanced everything, it just keeps getting better and better.

Learned my first lesson about Traction Control, or the nonexistence of it, back in 1970 when I totaled out a 302 Boss Mustang. Pedal to the Metal on a dirt road, yep, crash and burn is the end result. Shoulda waited till I was old enough to get a drivers license before doing something that stupid. Not sure if even today's technology would of helped. Lesson learned.


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[ZL1-V]

Originally Posted by Normagene

I understand what you're saying. I think all those unnecessary options in the ZL1 is why all the magazines pick the ZL1. Like I said; when they asked the Pro drivers they all chose the Mustang. I get the cost/Hp factor, but the Pro drivers pick the Mustang because it demands much more driver skill. One driver said something like "when you're driving the Mustang you sweat and work your butt off. The ZL1 is like a hi speed Sunday afternoon cruise, almost effortless and you don't need to take a shower afterwards".
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Which makes me wonder in your statement which "pro drivers" stated this? Names of them? The reason I ask is ask most "pro drivers" would not want to wrestle an unruly car around all day? Maybe you are referencing Randy Pobst? I believe the Mustang requires more steering input because of the live axle. I know my Mustang did on the Streets of Willow. The only PTM mode I use on my ZL1 is the wet setting when the road is damp.