Is the ZL1 a Loss Leader? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

apr_gen5 · 02-20-2014, 10:03 AM

Does GM make money on the ZL1? It seems like the sum of the parts is greater than the cost. Also, I keep comparing it to my e46 M3, which had a sticker price 12 years ago near the ZL1 today. There are a few areas where the ZL1 is a little cheaper, but that is offset by the parts where the ZL1 is better. Parts where I think the ZL1 is better:

Engine, more power and torque, lower cost to maintain and repair
Transmission, shifts more smoothly
Wheels, lighter and bigger
Seat, more comfortable for daily driving
HUD
Brakes

serviceguy · 02-20-2014, 10:08 AM

Can't figure out why the Z/28 is more than the ZL1 ? the ZL1 is more car.

DavidW · 02-20-2014, 12:16 PM

The sum of any cars parts is more than the price of the car, thats how it always is, thats how it is for everything I work in HVAC and the cost of the parts in any HVAC unit is much higher than the unit its self
One thing I never got is the pricing of engines, for example on the chev colorado they had a inline 5 and a v8, the v8 was a few thousand dollar upgrade on the truck, yet to buy each engine from parts, the v8 is actually $1500 LESS than the inline 5

Whos_Drivin · 02-20-2014, 12:34 PM

Supply and demand...when you're buying a car you probably don't "need" a new one. When you're buying parts you usually "need" it to get back on the road. Not to mention parts typically have more middle men thus more overhead.

gen=5 · 02-20-2014, 12:54 PM

When it comes to buying a car/truck the V-8 is yes a higher priced up grade which it should be due power etc ...etc...
But when it comes to the selling of V-8 engine they are sold by the 1000's for everything from replacement's to being used as crate engine's...A v5 engine is not sold in such large numbers so the cost of building and selling that motor is most likely higher as a unit by its self... its the same for lots of other parts and certain engine's ...Also the after market produce's a lot of V-8's and parts for them so they Have to match and compete with them..
The factory may lose money on one part and make lots on another during the process of selling a complete car,so they have to make it up when they offer the parts as replacements....

OldScoolCamaro · 02-21-2014, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apr_gen5

Does GM make money on the ZL1? It seems like the sum of the parts is greater than the cost. Also, I keep comparing it to my e46 M3, which had a sticker price 12 years ago near the ZL1 today. There are a few areas where the ZL1 is a little cheaper, but that is offset by the parts where the ZL1 is better. Parts where I think the ZL1 is better:

Engine, more power and torque, lower cost to maintain and repair
Transmission, shifts more smoothly
Wheels, lighter and bigger
Seat, more comfortable for daily driving
HUD
Brakes

BMW is a finer crafted car....there...I said it. It may not be better for one versus the other, but it's a known commodity. The ZL1 is a bargain no doubt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by serviceguy

Can't figure out why the Z/28 is more than the ZL1 ? the ZL1 is more car.

...I cried like a baby and whined publicaly when they announced the MSRP...

*Mr. Wyndham* · 02-21-2014, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apr_gen5

Does GM make money on the ZL1? It seems like the sum of the parts is greater than the cost. Also, I keep comparing it to my e46 M3, which had a sticker price 12 years ago near the ZL1 today. There are a few areas where the ZL1 is a little cheaper, but that is offset by the parts where the ZL1 is better. Parts where I think the ZL1 is better:

Engine, more power and torque, lower cost to maintain and repair
Transmission, shifts more smoothly
Wheels, lighter and bigger
Seat, more comfortable for daily driving
HUD
Brakes

Take one truth to heart: If they didn't make any money - they wouldn't have built it.

The manufacturer doesn't pay nearly as much for parts as you or I do. And the assembly process is far more efficient than adding things aftermarket. You can compare a Camaro to a Mercedes - but ultimately what underlines the comparison is that Chevy is a value brand, while Mercedes is not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by serviceguy

Can't figure out why the Z/28 is more than the ZL1 ? the ZL1 is more car.

No it's not. It has 75 more horsepower...and 300 more lbs. That's all it's got on the Z/28. If we focus on performance - arguably the Z/28 is more car. The brakes alone on the Z/28 are an $8000 investment (I think Ferrari once offered the exact same equipment as a $20,000 option - and you won't find them on another car this cheap - anywhere)...the wheels, tires; another huge cost.

Now - let's talk about the thinner glass - the COST of removing air-conditioning and radio components. Experimental DSSV shocks? Standard Recaro seats, LS7 engine (that is more expensive than the LSA in the ZL1...)dry-sump oiling?

What about the subtle modifications to the suspension such as bushings and linkages? The fixed-replacement rear seat? All of these things cost more to do.

Regardless of performance...the components used in the Z/28 are far more expensive than those used to build the ZL1.

Also - as I said above: They wouldn't have built it if they weren't going to make money on it...and the car is very special, some might say it's a limited run. Once this generation is over - the LS7 Z/28 will fade forever.

ST1LE · 02-21-2014, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serviceguy

Can't figure out why the Z/28 is more than the ZL1 ? the ZL1 is more car.

Expunge · 02-22-2014, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serviceguy

Can't figure out why the Z/28 is more than the ZL1 ? the ZL1 is more car.

The improved braking system and rims probably have a lot to do with it. Both are superior to the ZL1.

Msmall143 · 02-22-2014, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apr_gen5

Does GM make money on the ZL1? It seems like the sum of the parts is greater than the cost. Also, I keep comparing it to my e46 M3, which had a sticker price 12 years ago near the ZL1 today. There are a few areas where the ZL1 is a little cheaper, but that is offset by the parts where the ZL1 is better. Parts where I think the ZL1 is better:

Engine, more power and torque, lower cost to maintain and repair
Transmission, shifts more smoothly
Wheels, lighter and bigger
Seat, more comfortable for daily driving
HUD
Brakes

Chevy is not going to manufacture anything that isn't meant to be profitable. The price of a part is far more than chevy's cost of a part

Q'smuscle · 02-22-2014, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Take one truth to heart: If they didn't make any money - they wouldn't have built it.

The manufacturer doesn't pay nearly as much for parts as you or I do. And the assembly process is far more efficient than adding things aftermarket. You can compare a Camaro to a Mercedes - but ultimately what underlines the comparison is that Chevy is a value brand, while Mercedes is not.

No it's not. It has 75 more horsepower...and 300 more lbs. That's all it's got on the Z/28. If we focus on performance - arguably the Z/28 is more car. The brakes alone on the Z/28 are an $8000 investment (I think Ferrari once offered the exact same equipment as a $20,000 option - and you won't find them on another car this cheap - anywhere)...the wheels, tires; another huge cost.

Now - let's talk about the thinner glass - the COST of removing air-conditioning and radio components. Experimental DSSV shocks? Standard Recaro seats, LS7 engine (that is more expensive than the LSA in the ZL1...)dry-sump oiling?

What about the subtle modifications to the suspension such as bushings and linkages? The fixed-replacement rear seat? All of these things cost more to do.

Regardless of performance...the components used in the Z/28 are far more expensive than those used to build the ZL1.

Also - as I said above: They wouldn't have built it if they weren't going to make money on it...and the car is very special, some might say it's a limited run. Once this generation is over - the LS7 Z/28 will fade forever.

I think he means the ZL1 is more car than the Z/28 because of all the comforts and

gadgets you get with the ZL1! Which is why the Z/28 is called the Stripped down strictly track camaro. The Z/28 don't have the HUD, four pack gauges, AC or radio unless you order and pay extra.

alaskacamaro · 02-22-2014, 12:56 PM

Chevy put a lot of R&D into the Z/28 project so the cost is going to be high initially, like any new product (remember when a 50" plasma cost 10K). Eventually that new tech in going to trickle down and cost a lot less but I am sure chevy is trying to recoup their research costs.

I feel the ZL1 is still the best all around Camaro built..

BaylorCamaro · 02-22-2014, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

If they didn't make any money - they wouldn't have built it.

Tell that to Volkswagen, they get railed on every Bugatti they sell. Granted that car and the ZL1 are WORLDS apart and the Veyron is more of a statement.

Apparently the Smart Fortwo and Jaguar X Type also lose money. Not sure about the facts on that one though..

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-loses...bug-1426504241

HDRDTD · 02-22-2014, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Msmall143

Chevy is not going to manufacture anything that isn't meant to be profitable. The price of a part is far more than chevy's cost of a part

Not always true.
For example the Chevy Volt. Ask GM how much money they lose on every one of them.

02-20-2014, 10:03 AM	#1
apr_gen5 Drives: 2013 ZL1 Yeh! Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Vancouver WA Posts: 29	Is the ZL1 a Loss Leader? Does GM make money on the ZL1? It seems like the sum of the parts is greater than the cost. Also, I keep comparing it to my e46 M3, which had a sticker price 12 years ago near the ZL1 today. There are a few areas where the ZL1 is a little cheaper, but that is offset by the parts where the ZL1 is better. Parts where I think the ZL1 is better: Engine, more power and torque, lower cost to maintain and repair Transmission, shifts more smoothly Wheels, lighter and bigger Seat, more comfortable for daily driving HUD Brakes

02-20-2014, 12:34 PM	#4
Whos_Drivin Drives: '12 Camaro ZL1, '16 Silverado Z71 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Blaine, MN Posts: 846	Supply and demand...when you're buying a car you probably don't "need" a new one. When you're buying parts you usually "need" it to get back on the road. Not to mention parts typically have more middle men thus more overhead. __________________ 2012 ZL1: M6, Rotofab CAI, ATI balancer w/8.66 overdrive, PFADT long tube headers w/cats 2016 Silverado LTZ-Z71 Midnight Edition: 6.2L, 8 speed auto, Borla exhaust

02-20-2014, 12:54 PM	#5
gen=5 Drives: 13 ZL1 vert blac fastlane/LPE 750 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: houston Posts: 1,322 View My Garage	When it comes to buying a car/truck the V-8 is yes a higher priced up grade which it should be due power etc ...etc... But when it comes to the selling of V-8 engine they are sold by the 1000's for everything from replacement's to being used as crate engine's...A v5 engine is not sold in such large numbers so the cost of building and selling that motor is most likely higher as a unit by its self... its the same for lots of other parts and certain engine's ...Also the after market produce's a lot of V-8's and parts for them so they Have to match and compete with them.. The factory may lose money on one part and make lots on another during the process of selling a complete car,so they have to make it up when they offer the parts as replacements.... __________________ http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346589 CHECK OUT THE BUILDING OF MY RANCH FOR DISABLED VETS, COMPLETE WITH A GUN RANGE .

02-20-2014, 10:08 AM	#2
serviceguy Drives: 2014 Z/28 # 89, 69 Camaro, 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Flint MI Posts: 669	Can't figure out why the Z/28 is more than the ZL1 ? the ZL1 is more car.

02-20-2014, 12:16 PM	#3
DavidW Drives: 2013 ZL1 Vert Auto IOM Join Date: May 2012 Location: Alberta Posts: 389	The sum of any cars parts is more than the price of the car, thats how it always is, thats how it is for everything I work in HVAC and the cost of the parts in any HVAC unit is much higher than the unit its self One thing I never got is the pricing of engines, for example on the chev colorado they had a inline 5 and a v8, the v8 was a few thousand dollar upgrade on the truck, yet to buy each engine from parts, the v8 is actually $1500 LESS than the inline 5

02-22-2014, 12:56 PM	#12
alaskacamaro Drives: 2012 2SS 45TH Anniversary Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 720	Chevy put a lot of R&D into the Z/28 project so the cost is going to be high initially, like any new product (remember when a 50" plasma cost 10K). Eventually that new tech in going to trickle down and cost a lot less but I am sure chevy is trying to recoup their research costs. I feel the ZL1 is still the best all around Camaro built..