WTF California...WTF?

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by future2010camaroowner

No. That isn't what I meant at all. I said illegal immigrants still pay taxes using false IDs but when they retire, they can get benefit from the government. They contribute to the economy physically (hard labor) and culturally (traditions, heritages). To sum it all up, they put in more than they remove from the jar.

+1

But the thing is, everybody loves to complain and blame someone else. If immigrants were causing so many problems, why don't people just stop buying the products that they are producing or offering? Because people love cheap goods.

People can cry all they want about how much is sent to mexico, but they neglect to realize that the country is profiting off them as well with the below market wages they are paid for the services they provide.


Don't get me wrong, I'm actually against illegal immigration as well, but for other reasons.

[future2010camaroowner]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

How many laws have to be broken for it to be a crime in your eyes?

And you are what... assuming that these companies are claiming illegal aliens as employees? (ever heard of 'under the table')

It goes far beyond jobs and taxes... it's about overwhelming the entire system, this is the whole purpose for having immigration laws in the US.

You mean you didn't know that illegal immigrants are hired by businesses and corporations? I suggest you read The Accidental American by Rinku Sen. Some big five star restaurants in Las Vegas and New York are run by illegal immigrants. They work in the back and are hidden. Another thing I would like to add is that immigrants are seen as farmhands from a Democrat's point of view and Republicans see them as foreigners and criminals. What they miss is the human aspect of it. Immigrants are human beings like you or I. Of course they will migrate from a poorer place to a better one. People have been doing it for thousands of years. You mentioned taxes and jobs. Immigrants pay taxes like I already stated. Jobs? They do jobs that no one else would do for unimaginable wages; they literally built this country with their hands.

Perhaps if you paid closer attention, I was correcting the poster that said immigrants are draining the Medicare system. I'm not for or against illegal immigration but I see things from their perspective.

Originally Posted by firengnred

You're using that fuzzy math, aren't you?

What fuzzy math? Let me know if you need me to clarify anything.

[firengnred]

I would like to add is that immigrants are seen as farmhands from a Democrat's point of view and Republicans see them as foreigners and criminals.

Uh..they are and, they are and, they are.

Immigrants are human beings like you or I.

Again, they are.

Of course they will migrate from a poorer place to a better one.

Don't blame them for wanting to.

Immigrants pay taxes like I already stated.

To a very small degree. Not nearly the share that you or I do. And definitely not enough to offset the burden they impose on the system.

they literally built this country with their hands.

If that was all it took to build a country as great as this one, why is Mexico a shit hole? Great culture and wonderful people, most of 'em. My point is it's the leadership that steers a country to greatness on the backs of it's people.

Nothing wrong with the people or them wanting to come here. They just need to do it legally in a controlled manner.

They do jobs that no one else would do for unimaginable wages;

If we weren't so over taxed to a large part as a result of all the free hand outs, we could afford to pay retail prices for goods that would allow farmers to pay reasonable wages and put AMERICANS to work earning a LIVING.

Flame away.

[SScattergunSS]

[SummoneR]

Originally Posted by firengnred

Uh..they are and, they are and, they are.



Again, they are.



Don't blame them for wanting to.



To a very small degree. Not nearly the share that you or I do. And definitely not enough to offset the burden they impose on the system.



If that was all it took to build a country as great as this one, why is Mexico a shit hole? Great culture and wonderful people, most of 'em. My point is it's the leadership that steers a country to greatness on the backs of it's people.

Nothing wrong with the people or them wanting to come here. They just need to do it legally in a controlled manner.



If we weren't so over taxed to a large part as a result of all the free hand outs, we could afford to pay retail prices for goods that would allow farmers to pay reasonable wages and put AMERICANS to work earning a LIVING.

Flame away.

[future2010camaroowner]

I'm not flaming anyone. On the contrary, I get flamed for defending immigrants. I agree with what you are saying for the most part but not the last part on the taxes and wages. Companies and business are after only one thing:profit. Why hire someone when you have to pay them the minimum wage with personal rights and benefits when you can hire someone who doesn't speak English and do it for the fraction of the price?

That goes back to what The Evil Tw1n was saying. "If immigrants were causing so many problems, why don't people just stop buying the products that they are producing or offering? Because people love cheap goods." The companies locate overseas to third world countries such as the Philippines or India where workers work in squalor for long hours without rest. Back in America, we get breaks and a clean environment. That's why prices are so low and those workers are not American.

Feel free to flame me if you want.

[SummoneR]

Originally Posted by future2010camaroowner

I'm not flaming anyone. On the contrary, I get flamed for defending immigrants. I agree with what you are saying for the most part but not the last part on the taxes and wages. Companies and business are after only one thing:profit. Why hire someone when you have to pay them the minimum wage with personal rights and benefits when you can hire someone who doesn't speak English and do it for the fraction of the price?

That goes back to what The Evil Tw1n was saying. "If immigrants were causing so many problems, why don't people just stop buying the products that they are producing or offering? Because people love cheap goods." The companies locate overseas to third world countries such as the Philippines or India where workers work in squalor for long hours without rest. That's why prices are so low and those workers are not American.

I think you missed his point, they higher cheap labor to pay for everything else thats through the roof... it's a vicious cycle.

People dont stop because CA is what? the 4th largest economy in the world, we produce how much produce? (vegetables, etc...) A LOT people can't stop eating. If they wanted to stop supporting that, they would have to buy food out of state, thats not going to happen. So they are forced to buy it at ridiculous rates.

Man this builds a fire inside me I swear I could go off on how all this is jacked up. I just started thinking about Wal-Mart and that whole forcing people to sell at a certain price so they can sell cheap yet make millions in profit forcing jobs to go overseas, and paying their local employees (Associates) squat while the managers make bank!

great look what you made me do... the whole system is messed up, and honestly I don't think it can be fixed by man, it will ultimately collapse like every other great empire before and we will have to start over from scratch. The American lifestyle as it sits now, as we see and understand it, is not sustainable. The great USA will pass as well, and from the inside, like they all do. It has already begun.

[future2010camaroowner]

He's talking about food, I'm talking about consumer goods. I get what you are saying that the whole system is broken and needs to be fixed. Let's just leave it at that.

[SScattergunSS]

Originally Posted by SummoneR

I think you missed his point, they higher cheap labor to pay for everything else thats through the roof... it's a vicious cycle.

People dont stop because CA is what? the 4th largest economy in the world, we produce how much produce? (vegetables, etc...) A LOT people can't stop eating. If they wanted to stop supporting that, they would have to buy food out of state, thats not going to happen. So they are forced to buy it at ridiculous rates.

Man this builds a fire inside me I swear I could go off on how all this is jacked up. I just started thinking about Wal-Mart and that whole forcing people to sell at a certain price so they can sell cheap yet make millions in profit forcing jobs to go overseas, and paying their local employees (Associates) squat while the managers make bank!

great look what you made me do... the whole system is messed up, and honestly I don't think it can be fixed by man, it will ultimately collapse like every other great empire before and we will have to start over from scratch. The American lifestyle as it sits now, as we see and understand it, is not sustainable. The great USA will pass as well, and from the inside, like they all do. It has already begun.

....~ Sic Transit Gloria Mundi ~

(So passes the glory of the world)

[SummoneR]

Originally Posted by future2010camaroowner

He's talking about food, I'm talking about consumer goods. I get what you are saying that the whole system is broken and needs to be fixed. Let's just leave it at that.

Most consumer goods are brought from overseas.

Which brings up another point that worries me. Back before WWII the US had an amazing capacity to manufacture goods of all kinds, including heavy machinery. Thats all gone bye bye, which concerns me because we only have a few places left that can take care of the "War Machine/Sleeping Giant" we once were. If we were to be attacked like that again we would be screwed because we could not ramp up fast enough to meet the demand as we did back then... but I digress and go off topic... sorry.

So yes. we can leave it at that.

Originally Posted by SScattergunSS

.........~ Sic Transit Gloria ~

(So passes the glory of the world)

Thanks for the support. I love that phrase. I like the quote in your signature too.

[SScattergunSS]

Originally Posted by SummoneR

Most consumer goods are brought from overseas.

Which brings up another point that worries me. Back before WWII the US had an amazing capacity to manufacture goods of all kinds, including heavy machinery. Thats all gone bye bye, which concerns me because we only have a few places left that can take care of the "War Machine/Sleeping Giant" we once were. If we were to be attacked like that again we would be screwed because we could not ramp up fast enough to meet the demand as we did back then... but I digress and go off topic... sorry.

So yes. we can leave it at that.



Thanks for the support. I love that phrase. I like the quote in your signature too.

This whole post of yours is dead on! It's almost as though we've been sold out by the powers that be, with the intention to bring an end to the only true freedom the world has ever known...the United States of America. Right now we're like a heavyweight boxer with a glass jaw. Our future, which I feel is all but inevitable, is so disgusting to try to contemplate in it's totality.

How and when did this all start...yet the better question is, who sold us out and why?! :flag1:

[PQ]

We've discussed it before. California, New York, DC, and I believe DG added Ontario can please go start their own entity.

[SScattergunSS]

Originally Posted by PQ

We've discussed it before. California, New York, DC, and I believe DG added Ontario can please go start their own entity.

[firengnred]

I get flamed for defending immigrants. I agree with what you are saying for the most part but not the last part on the taxes and wages.

Only the illegal or undocumented. Which is what I thought we were talking about. Legal immigration is great. They are documented, legally employed and paying taxes. Ideally when they come here legally we can control the rate of influx that can be sustained by the economy without overburden. Illegals are a detriment to ALL including the legal immigrants.

Companies and business are after only one thing:profit.

What's wrong with that? They need to make a profit to stay in business. BUT, I believe businesses have a responsibility here at home first to keep both businesses and jobs HERE! I'm not talking about communism but there needs to be a concern for the greater good of this country, rather than simply the BOTTOM LINE!!!!!

Why hire someone when you have to pay them the minimum wage with personal rights and benefits when you can hire someone who doesn't speak English and do it for the fraction of the price?

Less than admirable integrity and concern for the greater good of the country!!!! Classic example of why we're circling the bowl. Get ready to take a deep breath and hold your nose.......... As I said before, what makes a great country is the leadership steering it in the right direction. Well, we've been heading in the wrong direction I fear for too long.

"If immigrants were causing so many problems, why don't people just stop buying the products that they are producing or offering? Because people love cheap goods."

SommoneR covered that quite well.