RIP 2012 ZL1 #1635

[PQ]

Originally Posted by oldfriend

Random act of a former employee """"
Not really , the bastard was on the payroll at the time he did the deed
About comparing it with acts of God , makes no sense , two complete different situations
I for one , never said ,,,,give the OP. A brand new car , but this dealer is dragging his feet , but that's his problem and choice

Wait, wut?

I thought it was after hours and unauthorized?

Originally Posted by Mr pogo

precedence has been set already before this happened.
cliff notes, there was the guy who had his engine repaired at the dealer and later the valves kissed the pistons.
dealer would only replace the heads, GM stepped in and new engine installed at another dealer.

I didnt see anybody calling GM a pos for not stepping in up until today where apparently they are involved now.

PS, kudos to those from other dealers, GM and elsewhere that stepped up to help the OP.

That case had other circumstances. It was one of those, again, where GM got tired of the bully customer.

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

If you didn't own a business, what would you're perspective be? I can see how you are passionate about this issue because, I'm sure like any other business, this puts a hurt on the wallet in one sense, but if it's done right, It's a boom for business.

I felt this way long before I owned my business.

I always wanted to own a business and make a lot of money. And I always defended those who did in a free society. In every way.

Well now I own my business (just not making a ton of money lol) and I still feel the same all the way around.

I have learned a lot owning a business that I had no clue of before. It used to piss me off when companies would offer the best prices to the new customers and the long time customers didn't get the good deals. And the new customers would bitch because their rates would go up so fast after they signed up. Well it make perfect sense now. You need the new business. You have to entice new business and you can't afford to give long time customers those rates or you lose.

Just one quick example. lol

But as far as liability in this situation I was always an employee of someone. And I did stupid shit like break flourecent light bulb tubes like I was Luke freaking Skywalker by the dumpsters. That would have been a fine for the company and I realized one day that that is such bullshit. I was a VFW with a good credit score and a great work history. How was the company supposed to know I might have cost them like that. OR, what if a company driver (because I saw it when I drove 18 wheelers) was drunk. I always thought it was bullshit for the company to have to pay when it was his dumb ass fault and the company did their due diligence in hiring a guy who had a perfect driving record and good credit with half a million certified safe miles.

Liability. Of course. But we go WAY overboard at times. And that is all I'm saying.

BUT, I do think that officially and legally we hold businesses accountable to a level that makes people not want to bother. I know me and Bonnie held off hiring simply because it creates way too much risk and we take on so much as it is.

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

"Entitlement" in this situation is deserved. How often does this type of situation happen at this dealership? I'm thinking pretty close to none. The dealer has a valuable, repeat customer, why not offer him an "newer" vehicle? (like a 2013 low mileage, clean record and title) obviously greed at work here. It directly isn't the fault of either party, BUT the dealership was left with the responsibility of the care of that vehicle, just like all the other customer vehicles on that lot. They have a system of trust that is setup to protect these cars from inherent damage (keeping them indoors (ok, not all of them), putting the keys in a place that is entrusted by certain individuals, having insurance in place, etc.)

Here is where some of you business owners get lost at. The essence of buying these types of cars is the "feel good" feeling (permagrin) of ownership and making it your own. Some of you argue that it's just a car...of course, but what do you think that a guy who writes books about Camaro's and trades in his previous "joys" and the "whatever-it-takes-I-got-to-have-that-first-year-model" attitude and puts whatever mods he can afford into it, and then out of nowhere...his "baby" his wrenched from him? I ask...what kind of value is that to you?

^^^^^^^^THIS.

[CobraBall]

Originally Posted by AzItaliaSS

To back OP ,I would not want a used ZL1 with a "parking lot type bump or bruise type of thing" bumper replaced at Ford either. (which I am sure says "front end impact" somewhere on paper). Secondly there are civil liabilities at play here and dealer and employee share this and will pay in civil court.

Civil liabilities? Please. You guys watch too much Law and Order. The car was stolen from the dealership, albeit by an employee. That, plus the disclaimer/hold harmless that he probably signed, and yeah, good luck suing the dealer. If you're going to go after anyone here, you'd have to go after the employee. Good luck suing a guy that makes $35k/yr, even if your obtain a favorable judgment, you'll never collect from a guy that has relatively nothing in assets.

The liabilities owed in the end will far outweigh the extra 4k they offered. You screw up bad in society you pay for it and the compensation is based on how outrageous the act, and this one qualifys for more then 4k.

That's not at all how our civil justice system works. He deserves to be made whole. He did not win the sweepstakes. There's a huge difference here. His car had depreciated by 20% thus he deserves a car worth the same as what he lost.

The notion that the dealer is in any way responsible or liable for this is entirely up for debate as well. People love to hate on dealers because, well, it's fun to hate on dealers. But like the other guy said, they're just as much a victim in this as the owner. The only reason the dealer is getting hammered over this is because everyone seems to think this guy should be gifted a brand new $60k automobile in return for his used $47k example.

The dealer has put in an honest effort to make the guy whole. The car they're offering apparently has better options than the one they lost and they're compensating for the extra miles by throwing cash on top. Seems pretty fair to me.

To GM folks that seem to have no problem speaking there opinions any other time on this forum as a rep at times and others as your personal opinion, I standby my first post....
...crickets...
crickets...

the janitor at GMs bonus could pay for the difference between OP and dealer.

Why would GM get involved in this? It's an independent dealer vs a private customer. GM has no dog in this fight.

Here is where some of you business owners get lost at. The essence of buying these types of cars is the "feel good" feeling (permagrin) of ownership and making it your own. Some of you argue that it's just a car...of course, but what do you think that a guy who writes books about Camaro's and trades in his previous "joys" and the "whatever-it-takes-I-got-to-have-that-first-year-model" attitude and puts whatever mods he can afford into it, and then out of nowhere...his "baby" his wrenched from him? I ask...what kind of value is that to you?

It's rather hard to put a dollar amount on puppies, rainbows, cupcakes and newborn babies.

[CFD]

Originally Posted by PQ

Wait, wut?

I thought it was after hours and unauthorized?

That case had other circumstances. It was one of those, again, where GM got tired of the bully customer.

I felt this way long before I owned my business.

I always wanted to own a business and make a lot of money. And I always defended those who did in a free society. In every way.

Well now I own my business (just not making a ton of money lol) and I still feel the same all the way around.

I have learned a lot owning a business that I had no clue of before. It used to piss me off when companies would offer the best prices to the new customers and the long time customers didn't get the good deals. And the new customers would bitch because their rates would go up so fast after they signed up. Well it make perfect sense now. You need the new business. You have to entice new business and you can't afford to give long time customers those rates or you lose.

Just one quick example. lol

But as far as liability in this situation I was always an employee of someone. And I did stupid shit like break flourecent light bulb tubes like I was Luke freaking Skywalker by the dumpsters. That would have been a fine for the company and I realized one day that that is such bullshit. I was a VFW with a good credit score and a great work history. How was the company supposed to know I might have cost them like that. OR, what if a company driver (because I saw it when I drove 18 wheelers) was drunk. I always thought it was bullshit for the company to have to pay when it was his dumb ass fault and the company did their due diligence in hiring a guy who had a perfect driving record and good credit with half a million certified safe miles.

Liability. Of course. But we go WAY overboard at times. And that is all I'm saying.

BUT, I do think that officially and legally we hold businesses accountable to a level that makes people not want to bother. I know me and Bonnie held off hiring simply because it creates way too much risk and we take on so much as it is.

And this is why I do everything myself now and no longer have any employees. I have in the past had incidents where an employee damaged a customers vehicle(nothing like this incident) usually minor because sometimes shit happens but I always made it right and in any case if I chose to not take care of it out of pocket I always had adequate insurance. This is where this dealer is falling a little short.

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by oldfriend

Random act of a former employee """"
Not really , the bastard was on the payroll at the time he did the deed
About comparing it with acts of God , makes no sense , two complete different situations
I for one , never said ,,,,give the OP. A brand new car , but this dealer is dragging his feet , but that's his problem and choice

Act of God not covered by Insurance but the stupidity of an Employee is
covered. That's why I brought up Act of God. Hail Storm is good example of an Act of God.

[HmBuilder2]

Originally Posted by Bud20121LT

One thing I would like to know is did any charges get put on the person that entered the dealership , took the car, totaled the car , snaped a telephone pole. Where I am at this person would have spent time in the local jail, make a court apperance and have a record on them to follow them around for the rest of their life. Or just firing the person from the dealership the penalty for what they did?
I wouldn't think that would have happened anywhere in the US!
I feel sorry for the owner of the car and hope this all works out and then some! Don't give up and keep the pressure on them to make it good for ya!

If you read the newspaper report on this, It says the name of the employee, Do A search on facebook, you will find him, Maybe then we can ask him what was he thinking. just a thought.

[CanadianZL1#992]

I hope that out of this all dealers realize that to a lot of people it's not"JUST A CAR". Some people make a lot of sacrifices to have the vehicle of their dreams. When I wanted to mod my car I figured out what it was going to cost and worked a pile of overtime to afford it. Nobody has the right to take that from you!!!! When it's in there care it should be treated properly

[Devilfish]

I have read this whole thread. I don't believe the dealer owes OP a brand new car. I certainly don't believe that the OP should get anything for free. I do think that the dealer should do their best to find the OP something other than a 2 owner car with aftermarket wheels and prior damage for his 1 owner car in pristine condition. Anything above the $44k in insurance money? If they cared enough about their customer, they would suck up a little loss. Again, I am not saying they should give him a new car, just exactly what he lost.

If the car they offered him had been 1 or 2 owner with 13,000 miles and no aftermarket rims or prior damage, I would say he should have taken it and moved on. 3,000 miles is not that big of a deal. I think that the dealer may have still been making some sort of profit on that deal though. Trade-in ZL1 with after market wheels and prior damage. I bet they raped the previous owner on that deal. When I traded my car, I know the dealer ran a car fax before they even made an offer. If mine had been previously damaged, I would have gotten a significantly lower offer.

In summation, I think both sides have agendas. I don't think that if I owned a business, I would handle it this way, but I don't own 1st State Chevy. Now, people upset over him having to buy a replacement and not just being given one, that's flat out stupid. OP should have to buy his replacement. Why would it be okay for him to walk away with $44k and a new car, just because the dealer had a bad employee.

Carry On.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by CanadianZL1#992

I hope that out of this all dealers realize that to a lot of people it's not"JUST A CAR". Some people make a lot of sacrifices to have the vehicle of their dreams. When I wanted to mod my car I figured out what it was going to cost and worked a pile of overtime to afford it. Nobody has the right to take that from you!!!! When it's in there care it should be treated properly

Well said

[Ryanbabz71]

Originally Posted by CobraBall

Civil liabilities? Please. You guys watch too much Law and Order. The car was stolen from the dealership, albeit by an employee. That, plus the disclaimer/hold harmless that he probably signed, and yeah, good luck suing the dealer. If you're going to go after anyone here, you'd have to go after the employee. Good luck suing a guy that makes $35k/yr, even if your obtain a favorable judgment, you'll never collect from a guy that has relatively nothing in assets.



That's not at all how our civil justice system works. He deserves to be made whole. He did not win the sweepstakes. There's a huge difference here. His car had depreciated by 20% thus he deserves a car worth the same as what he lost.

The notion that the dealer is in any way responsible or liable for this is entirely up for debate as well. People love to hate on dealers because, well, it's fun to hate on dealers. But like the other guy said, they're just as much a victim in this as the owner. The only reason the dealer is getting hammered over this is because everyone seems to think this guy should be gifted a brand new $60k automobile in return for his used $47k example.

The dealer has put in an honest effort to make the guy whole. The car they're offering apparently has better options than the one they lost and they're compensating for the extra miles by throwing cash on top. Seems pretty fair to me.



Why would GM get involved in this? It's an independent dealer vs a private customer. GM has no dog in this fight.



It's rather hard to put a dollar amount on puppies, rainbows, cupcakes and newborn babies.

It doesn't seem like the dealer put in an honest effort to find another car. They seemed pretty shady giving him false info: 1 owner vs 2 owner, non disclosed previous damage, more miles, different options.

Lets all stop speculating and see how it turns out. There will be an outcome, hopefully it doesn't keep getting drug out.


Ryan

[nighttowl]

Originally Posted by Hall of Fame

I don't believe I read that on the insurance offer. Geico offered him 43 or 44 thousand something. Dealership kicked in 4k

this wouldn't buy a ZL1 that im aware of. used ones are selling for 50k+

[BrunSS]

Originally Posted by nighttowl

this wouldn't buy a ZL1 that im aware of. used ones are selling for 50k+

You can easy get a used One for 45-48 with the Same Options like OP s had

[AzItaliaSS]

just because you sign a hold harmless does not release from all liabilities, and your assuming the guy makes 35k, and your assuming he has no assets or liquidities(another assumption), and I tell you the dealers liability which you say is "debatable" is a bet I would take and not on the dealers side. Just cause you write a sign with a marker at a car wash and tape it on the wall that says the business has no responsibility does not mean breaking the law and being negligent to your security procedures releases you from liability or the employee. oh and by the way a GM exec did get involved, protecting your brand and doing the right thing should not be something you have to have explained to you why it is plausible for them then again,im sure your a mustang owner.

[nighttowl]

Originally Posted by BrunSS

You can easy get a used One for 45-48 with the Same Options like OP s had

plus tax and bs fees!