vs 2018 Mustang - Page 123

Chadicus · 07-12-2018, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

If you're forced to drag out that excuse I think you'll find it doesn't provide much comfort.

I wouldn't use a tire as an excuse either. Anyone can buy the Cup 2s if they want. I am predicting the PP2 runs a little slower time. If it beats the 1LE then kudos to Ford. Hollow victory for 350 owners of that happens.

ST1LE · 07-13-2018, 06:38 AM

If the PP2 is not faster than the 1LE then IMO it is a fail. Not because it HAS to be faster, because it doesn't. It will be a fail because they went so far to make it perform on the track(R Comp), that is not really that street-able anymore, and expecially not in comparison to the 1LE.

To give up that much, and still lose at the track = fail. IMHO of course

BlaqWhole · 07-13-2018, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST1LE

If the PP2 is not faster than the 1LE then IMO it is a fail. Not because it HAS to be faster, because it doesn't. It will be a fail because they went so far to make it perform on the track(R Comp), that is not really that street-able anymore, and expecially not in comparison to the 1LE.

To give up that much, and still lose at the track = fail. IMHO of course

Also because they had all this time to develop something that would beat an unchanged car.

FastCarFanBoy · 07-13-2018, 11:01 AM

They already offer a car that will match or beat the 1LE in the 350 albeit at a higher cost. The PP2 does not need to beat the 1LE in Fords eyes because that would have it stepping on the 350’s toes. You all want to compare the 350 to the ZL1 and that’s fine but Ford has another car coming to fill that slot in the 500 so their agenda is different that what you’all think it should be.

ULTRAZLS1 · 07-13-2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

They already offer a car that will match or beat the 1LE in the 350 albeit at a higher cost. The PP2 does not need to beat the 1LE in Fords eyes because that would have it stepping on the 350’s toes. You all want to compare the 350 to the ZL1 and that’s fine but Ford has another car coming to fill that slot in the 500 so their agenda is different that what you’all think it should be.

You’re kidding yourself if you think that’s not exactly what it was designed for. And I don’t think you will find much comfort in that mindset

Complete fail if it does not. Simple as that

shaffe · 07-13-2018, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

They already offer a car that will match or beat the 1LE in the 350 albeit at a higher cost. The PP2 does not need to beat the 1LE in Fords eyes because that would have it stepping on the 350’s toes. You all want to compare the 350 to the ZL1 and that’s fine but Ford has another car coming to fill that slot in the 500 so their agenda is different that what you’all think it should be.

The PP2 is meant to go after the 1LE. No matter what way you try to look at it, that is what it is for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

You’re kidding yourself if you think that’s not exactly what it was designed for. And I don’t think you will find much comfort in that mindset

Complete fail if it does not. Simple as that

I don't know if I would say complete fail. I would say it depends on the outcome.

ULTRAZLS1 · 07-13-2018, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaffe

The PP2 is meant to go after the 1LE. No matter what way you try to look at it, that is what it is for.

I don't know if I would say complete fail. I would say it depends on the outcome.

Complete fail at its design goal

But yeah that’s a bit harsh/ not totally the way it should be worded. I’m sure it will be a very capable vehicle even if it loses. It’s just kinda sad with a tire advantage and coming out afterwards. Would really show the extreme inferiority of the S550 compared to alpha

shaffe · 07-13-2018, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Complete fail at its design goal

But yeah that’s a bit harsh/ not totally the way it should be worded. I’m sure it will be a very capable vehicle even if it loses. It’s just kinda sad with a tire advantage and coming out afterwards. Would really show the extreme inferiority of the S550 compared to alpha

I still say it depends on what kind of times it turns in. If it is still like a second or 1.5 behind the 1LE then yeah that's a fail. If its right there.dead even i would say they succeeded in making a legit package to be compared to the 1LE. Now I would love to see them beat it, but I still think the 1LE will hold on to the better lap time, but I expect the PP2 to make it a respectable comparison .

ULTRAZLS1 · 07-13-2018, 11:56 AM

I guess a tie would be better than nothing

Kinda sad though if that’s all one can expect or be happy with as a mustang owner

Why can’t it come out and kick the shit out of the 1le? That’s what we would expect here and what gm usually delivers.

It seems many in the ford crowd are more than happy to just make excuses

hotlap · 07-13-2018, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

They already offer a car that will match or beat the 1LE in the 350 albeit at a higher cost. The PP2 does not need to beat the 1LE in Fords eyes because that would have it stepping on the 350’s toes. You all want to compare the 350 to the ZL1 and that’s fine but Ford has another car coming to fill that slot in the 500 so their agenda is different that what you’all think it should be.

V6 1LE > GT
SS > PP1
1LE = GT350
1LE ? PP2 (with odds on the 1LE)

Sweep

BlaqWhole · 07-13-2018, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

They already offer a car that will match or beat the 1LE in the 350 albeit at a higher cost. The PP2 does not need to beat the 1LE in Fords eyes because that would have it stepping on the 350’s toes. You all want to compare the 350 to the ZL1 and that’s fine but Ford has another car coming to fill that slot in the 500 so their agenda is different that what you’all think it should be.

So now the GT350 is the competition for the SS 1LE?? LOL! Ok.

And even with the GT500, by the time it comes out, 2020, it damn well better beat the ZL1. For the record, Ford is still acting all hush hush while everyone else out there has shown what they're bringing to the table. The Redeye with 797 HP all but takes away from anything the GT500 will have unless Ford pulls a trick out and has the GT500 at over 800 HP. If you ask me, Ford has waited too long to respond and they held information for too long while everyone else out there snuck up on them. Now that we have Redeyes and the standard HC received a boost and price drop and the ZR1 is out, let's just say the GT500 will really have to be something and I doubt it will be.

hotlap · 07-13-2018, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So now the GT350 is the competition for the SS 1LE?? LOL! Ok.

And even with the GT500, by the time it comes out, 2020, it damn well better beat the ZL1. For the record, Ford is still acting all hush hush while everyone else out there has shown what they're bringing to the table. The Redeye with 797 HP all but takes away from anything the GT500 will have unless Ford pulls a trick out and has the GT500 at over 800 HP. If you ask me, Ford has waited too long to respond and they held information for too long while everyone else out there snuck up on them. Now that we have Redeyes and the standard HC received a boost and price drop and the ZR1 is out, let's just say the GT500 will really have to be something and I doubt it will be.

The only thing the PP2 will do is prove that Ford could have done the whole thing a lot cheaper and easier. Rube Goldberg

kttxz06 · 07-13-2018, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

I guess a tie would be better than nothing

Kinda sad though if that’s all one can expect or be happy with as a mustang owner

Why can’t it come out and kick the shit out of the 1le? That’s what we would expect here and what gm usually delivers.

It seems many in the ford crowd are more than happy to just make excuses

Easy. When Mustang fanboys keep telling us the GT is a Zl1 killer, yet is 11 seconds behind the Zl1 on the fast list I posted, they have to come up with some kind of win mentally. So, if it ties, they will consider it a huge victory. For us? It's a failure. That's the differences between the way we think.

Think about that. The Zl1 is a full 1/4 mile ahead of a GT on the fast list. A full 1/4 mile ahead. In 1 lap!!!!!!!!!! 4 lap race and the Zl1 is lapping the GT. So, their arguments, whatever they may be will fall flat.

Mountain · 07-13-2018, 12:36 PM

The interesting thing is this:

The top Ford engineers on Mustang, in interviews lately, seem to give the impression they don't care at all about what Camaro is doing.

But then you come out with something like the PP2? Why? "To give customers a more thrilling experience"?

But... you put very wide Michelin Sport Cups on the car, go through the effort to completely retune the vehicle dynamics (ABS/TC/Stability/MRC), tweak the chassis/suspension (bracing and bushings) and lower the car a fair amount (with new springs). That's all a lot of effort and money just to offer "a more thrilling experience".

GTFO.

You could accomplish the same thing by just throwing on the GT350 springs (the PP2 are essentially that; I'm talking literally here), utilizing the GT350 MRC cal, using the GT350 tires (Pilot Sports/PS4; wider than PP1) and then, maybe offer some alternate wheels.

No, there was a higher goal here. A car or lap time was targeted. And... perhaps, somewhere along the way, in development, it was found that this "PP2" thing that was being developed as a skunk-works, was looking to be able to perform better than the GT350...

07-13-2018, 06:38 AM	#1710
ST1LE Drives: E92 BMW M3 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Houston Posts: 4,496	If the PP2 is not faster than the 1LE then IMO it is a fail. Not because it HAS to be faster, because it doesn't. It will be a fail because they went so far to make it perform on the track(R Comp), that is not really that street-able anymore, and expecially not in comparison to the 1LE. To give up that much, and still lose at the track = fail. IMHO of course __________________ SOLD - 2013 1LE - Pat G Spec'd Cam, NPP with 1 7/8" Long Tube Headers with High Flow Cats, Intake w/scoop, Ported Throttle Body, and Apex 1.25" Lowering Springs. J-Rod Built and Matt@FSP Tuned

07-13-2018, 11:01 AM	#1712
FastCarFanBoy Banned Drives: 2013 GB GT Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Florida Posts: 954	They already offer a car that will match or beat the 1LE in the 350 albeit at a higher cost. The PP2 does not need to beat the 1LE in Fords eyes because that would have it stepping on the 350’s toes. You all want to compare the 350 to the ZL1 and that’s fine but Ford has another car coming to fill that slot in the 500 so their agenda is different that what you’all think it should be.

07-13-2018, 11:56 AM	#1717
ULTRAZLS1 Drives: 14 Silverado LTZ Z71, 16 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Jackson, Michigan Posts: 4,407	I guess a tie would be better than nothing Kinda sad though if that’s all one can expect or be happy with as a mustang owner Why can’t it come out and kick the shit out of the 1le? That’s what we would expect here and what gm usually delivers. It seems many in the ford crowd are more than happy to just make excuses

07-13-2018, 12:36 PM	#1722
Mountain Drives: 2017 SS 1LE, 2016 1SS (previous) Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Metro-Detroit Posts: 1,863	The interesting thing is this: The top Ford engineers on Mustang, in interviews lately, seem to give the impression they don't care at all about what Camaro is doing. But then you come out with something like the PP2? Why? "To give customers a more thrilling experience"? But... you put very wide Michelin Sport Cups on the car, go through the effort to completely retune the vehicle dynamics (ABS/TC/Stability/MRC), tweak the chassis/suspension (bracing and bushings) and lower the car a fair amount (with new springs). That's all a lot of effort and money just to offer "a more thrilling experience". GTFO. You could accomplish the same thing by just throwing on the GT350 springs (the PP2 are essentially that; I'm talking literally here), utilizing the GT350 MRC cal, using the GT350 tires (Pilot Sports/PS4; wider than PP1) and then, maybe offer some alternate wheels. No, there was a higher goal here. A car or lap time was targeted. And... perhaps, somewhere along the way, in development, it was found that this "PP2" thing that was being developed as a skunk-works, was looking to be able to perform better than the GT350...

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