Shorties Vs. Long - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Bfh_american · 03-27-2019, 03:34 AM

Hey guys, didn't want to cause a comment war. Yeah, I've read that Kooks and ARH are the best. I'm more concerned with longevity and sound fitment/ergonomics during install. At the end of the day, it's all going to come down to the type of steel used, and precision of manufacture. I was just lookin for opinions, because years down the line, I don't want to have to replace them due to fair wear and tear. I'm gonna do my research and check out each product. Just wanted some ideas to start my quest. Thanks fellas.

PepeLePew · 03-27-2019, 07:58 AM

Good luck on your quest sir and have fun with the build.

rontammy0 · 03-27-2019, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Not sure why you are so bent out of shape here. I never said I owned ARH or Kooks, nor did I say they were not the highest quality. I said that TSP headers are 100% in terms of quality. The welds are amazing. The 304SS is for real. The fitment is perfect. And the dyno results are proven. My point is why pay $1000 more for the same result.

Show me one instance of a bad weld on a TSP header or dyno result that was even marginally less than the ARH or Kooks and then you have a case that the high dollar American made headers are superior. Otherwise stop the nonsense. The proof is in the pudding.

There are hundreds of folks running TSP and Stainless Works on this forum that have had zero issues and dyno results that prove they work.

- Jeff

Haha...exactly. why do folks act like headers are so different brand to brand. 304 stainless...proper fitment with quality welds. Bingo....good header. If you paying twice the price for anything...it better be a substantial upgrade over its closest competitor.

pnwdan · 03-27-2019, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bfh_american

Hey guys, didn't want to cause a comment war. Yeah, I've read that Kooks and ARH are the best. I'm more concerned with longevity and sound fitment/ergonomics during install. At the end of the day, it's all going to come down to the type of steel used, and precision of manufacture. I was just lookin for opinions, because years down the line, I don't want to have to replace them due to fair wear and tear. I'm gonna do my research and check out each product. Just wanted some ideas to start my quest. Thanks fellas.

Honest answer.
They connect to to the head and the exhaust pipe. As long as they line up, seal good and are 1-7/8" mandrel bent they will all perform the same.. You need good flow and reliability. I went with speed engineering because I don't want cats and have no issues. I'm gonna bet that because of the price point on them, more people have these than any other. Not all stainless steel is the same however I have yet to see anyone say their 5th gen stainless headers deteriorated. Not likely to happen. Even if for some reason they did, you can buy two to three sets of speed engineering headers for the price of one set of Kooks or the other high dollar ones. Just buy the Texas Speed (with cats) or Speed Engineering ones (no cats) and be happy.

Also I will say these are one of the easiest cars to install headers on EVER. i would not even bother with shorties unless some law made me. I had my car up and headers installed in a few hours.

pyroguy · 03-27-2019, 11:43 AM

Like others have said, long tube headers will perform pretty much the same across the board. Not long after the 5th gen Camaro came out was around the time of merge spikes being added to long tube headers (or so it seemed, not 100% on this fact it was just a big discussion at the time). The debate over which header had a merge spike in the collector area was debated because it helped the flow of the exhaust better. Some of the more budget based headers didn't have them and so the higher priced setups had the advantage of a few extra hp on minor modified cars and more on higher modified cars. Now the non-top tier headers have included merge spikes also.

The cheaper headers are cheaper because of the Chinese labor being significantly less than American labor. Some brands and I don't think any of the ones I listed are in this category, but some brands use inferior tubing. What I mean by that is maybe they use 304 stainless (as they should), but they might use thinner piping. That contributes to lower cost, but can cause issues with durability, longevity, and other potential issues down the road.

Also, as I stated the quality control isn't watched as closely in Chinese plants as it is in the American manufacturing operations. Sometimes you get the guy who just learned how to weld last week working on your header, sometimes you get a different welding technique for buttoning everything up, sometimes you have to dimple a tube because the alignment wasn't 100% on when they started welding or the welding was done in a way where the tube moved as the welds cooled. Lower QC management means less overhead which equates to less cost passed on to the consumer.

Additionally, the higher priced companies stand behind their product 100% (lifetime warranties) and have people on hand to answer questions about issues based with their product. They seldom need these reps as their product is typically very high quality, but if you ever run into an issue they have people there to help answer questions.

All of this plus the R&D included to create the header to begin with along with the other reasons I listed are why the higher priced headers are more expensive. Will a Speed Engineering header give you the performance you're after? Probably. Will a Kooks, ARH, or Stainless Works header yield you a bunch of extra power? No. However, if you're like me and plan on never selling the car then the potential hassle of having to change out a header multiple times if it does fail looks like down time that I'd rather not spend. My time is valuable as well and if my car goes down during summer months I'd be pretty upset. That's why I chose what I did, but that doesn't mean that anyone else choosing a more budget based header is making a bad decision either. It's all about what you want to spend and what you want to do with it. One phrase I like to use is "until you start paying for my build you don't get to tell me how to build me ride".

OP enjoy and happy modding!

Nighthawk89 · 03-27-2019, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bfh_american

Hey guys, didn't want to cause a comment war. Yeah, I've read that Kooks and ARH are the best. I'm more concerned with longevity and sound fitment/ergonomics during install. At the end of the day, it's all going to come down to the type of steel used, and precision of manufacture. I was just lookin for opinions, because years down the line, I don't want to have to replace them due to fair wear and tear. I'm gonna do my research and check out each product. Just wanted some ideas to start my quest. Thanks fellas.

OP. If what you are looking for is a quality product and not a budget buy then get yourself a set of Jet hot coated Kooks or ARH. Pyroguy did a great job in explanation as seen above.

Bfh_american · 03-29-2019, 04:00 AM

Fantastic explanation I definitely can't wait to get home and start modding. Biting the bullet as we speak! The reason I want to go higher end is the same reason as yours, I'm keeping the car and I definitely don't want it to go down in the summer. Plus, NJ is the winter salting and pothole capital of the world. One bump away from breakage haha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyroguy

OP enjoy and happy modding!

03-27-2019, 11:43 AM	#19
pyroguy Started#gottalovethatblue Drives: ABM #832 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: GA Posts: 7,088 View My Garage	Like others have said, long tube headers will perform pretty much the same across the board. Not long after the 5th gen Camaro came out was around the time of merge spikes being added to long tube headers (or so it seemed, not 100% on this fact it was just a big discussion at the time). The debate over which header had a merge spike in the collector area was debated because it helped the flow of the exhaust better. Some of the more budget based headers didn't have them and so the higher priced setups had the advantage of a few extra hp on minor modified cars and more on higher modified cars. Now the non-top tier headers have included merge spikes also. The cheaper headers are cheaper because of the Chinese labor being significantly less than American labor. Some brands and I don't think any of the ones I listed are in this category, but some brands use inferior tubing. What I mean by that is maybe they use 304 stainless (as they should), but they might use thinner piping. That contributes to lower cost, but can cause issues with durability, longevity, and other potential issues down the road. Also, as I stated the quality control isn't watched as closely in Chinese plants as it is in the American manufacturing operations. Sometimes you get the guy who just learned how to weld last week working on your header, sometimes you get a different welding technique for buttoning everything up, sometimes you have to dimple a tube because the alignment wasn't 100% on when they started welding or the welding was done in a way where the tube moved as the welds cooled. Lower QC management means less overhead which equates to less cost passed on to the consumer. Additionally, the higher priced companies stand behind their product 100% (lifetime warranties) and have people on hand to answer questions about issues based with their product. They seldom need these reps as their product is typically very high quality, but if you ever run into an issue they have people there to help answer questions. All of this plus the R&D included to create the header to begin with along with the other reasons I listed are why the higher priced headers are more expensive. Will a Speed Engineering header give you the performance you're after? Probably. Will a Kooks, ARH, or Stainless Works header yield you a bunch of extra power? No. However, if you're like me and plan on never selling the car then the potential hassle of having to change out a header multiple times if it does fail looks like down time that I'd rather not spend. My time is valuable as well and if my car goes down during summer months I'd be pretty upset. That's why I chose what I did, but that doesn't mean that anyone else choosing a more budget based header is making a bad decision either. It's all about what you want to spend and what you want to do with it. One phrase I like to use is "until you start paying for my build you don't get to tell me how to build me ride". OP enjoy and happy modding! __________________ '10 Camaro 2SS/RS \| Aqua Blue #832 of 3,903 \| Silver Stripes Check out my build thread

03-27-2019, 03:34 AM	#15
Bfh_american Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: New Jersey Posts: 62	Hey guys, didn't want to cause a comment war. Yeah, I've read that Kooks and ARH are the best. I'm more concerned with longevity and sound fitment/ergonomics during install. At the end of the day, it's all going to come down to the type of steel used, and precision of manufacture. I was just lookin for opinions, because years down the line, I don't want to have to replace them due to fair wear and tear. I'm gonna do my research and check out each product. Just wanted some ideas to start my quest. Thanks fellas.

03-27-2019, 07:58 AM	#16
PepeLePew Drives: 2010 2SS Coupe; 2011 2LT Vert Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Prosper, TX Posts: 458	Good luck on your quest sir and have fun with the build.