Headers w/o a tune.

[pnwdan]

Originally Posted by Artryan

I basically asked the question because when I went back and searched, there were ads for headers from 2010 or so that claimed no tune was needed. Obviously, it's best to get a tune, but I was curious as to what changed over time. I'm guessing that although it's best to get a tune, it doesn't mean your engine will blow if you don't.



Secondly, the question is asked why would you not just get a tune if you're spending the money? Well, in my situation, getting a local tune is tough due to lack of options locally AND time constraints. Also, I'm just not sure how I feel about email tunes. Based on what I've read, you need a windows based OS to load and email tunes. I only have a Mac, so I would need to buy some sort of cheap laptop just to load the tunes. So you can see, a tune for me isn't going to be $400. Best case scenario is $500 at a place over an hour away.

If you have a mac, it can run windows so..

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[pyroguy]

As others have said, yes a tune is required. However, you can drive three car without a tune. The problem lies with WOT pulls where the car can lean out potentially causing damage. Additionally without a tune there will be a CEL and if you have vehicle inspections where you live you likely won't pass with a CEL not to mention if you have emissions you won't pass without a tune.

The real question is why spend the money for headers and not get the optimal utilization out of them?

[Cerberos]

You can do it there will be no problem, but you will get a CEL, if you can live with that while you get the money for a tune then you will be ok.

[CompleteStreet]

You can drive the car with headers and without a tune. You will get a CEL, and the car may run rich or lean. That said, it should be fine. Also Kooks sells green cats that do not throw a code.

https://www.cspracing.com/kooks-1-7-...-zl1/2250h430/

[lemontwist]

Originally Posted by CompleteStreet

You can drive the car with headers and without a tune. You will get a CEL, and the car may run rich or lean. That said, it should be fine. Also Kooks sells green cats that do not throw a code.

https://www.cspracing.com/kooks-1-7-...-zl1/2250h430/

i was also wondering i like your answer.
for 50+years people have be doing headers in the 80's computer controlled cars started and still you could do headers with no tuning but to get the most you might have put a chip in it.now to get the most you should get a tune i just don't get it for small bolt on's the computer should be able to read the a/f mixture and do it's own adjustment to the timing and the injector pulse.if you throw a turbo on it i understand it being to much for the ecm to handle. but for some reason that is not the case

[hunter1660]

[Avenging Orange]

Originally Posted by hunter1660

[davidscamaro]

Just get a tune after bro, your glowing red pistions will thank you

[zwc0442]

This is a good read. Seems headers and HF cats on stock tune didn't affect air/fuel ratio according to the dyno runs.

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showt...r+test+results

[Artryan]

Originally Posted by lemontwist

i was also wondering i like your answer.
for 50+years people have be doing headers in the 80's computer controlled cars started and still you could do headers with no tuning but to get the most you might have put a chip in it.now to get the most you should get a tune i just don't get it for small bolt on's the computer should be able to read the a/f mixture and do it's own adjustment to the timing and the injector pulse.if you throw a turbo on it i understand it being to much for the ecm to handle. but for some reason that is not the case

This is my line of thinking as well, and at least some have shown no change in A/F ratios when adding headers (or at least the catted ones.)

I'm not going to argue against a tune in any situation, but I think some people here have come to believe that you'll ruin the engine without a tune. I just haven't seen evidence of that. I guess the best option would be to email Kooks and get their opinion as well.

I plan on having the car tuned at some point, but it's more of an ordeal for me than it is most people. More than likely I will end up doing an email tune from dynosteve as that will not require me to spend a ton of money, drive a good distance, and most likely leave my car at the tuner's business for several days.

[christianchevell]

You can get a preloaded tune from Jannetty on a sxt4 scanner also, or if you can find a tuner locally usually a dyno tune would be just getting it there for a hour, not leaving it there if they are good...… Generally Jannetty if you buy the tuner and headers from them the tune is free and you just plug into your obd2 port and can save and return to stock the tune..... and I would think you may like to adjust things as in fan start, tractions torque management which is a real power robber, etc..... Dyno Steve should be able to send you a preloaded tune also in a handheld from a similar install in another Camaro preloaded to adjust the AFR right...…… https://jannettyracing.com/

[davidscamaro]

What's next cam with no tune ....just drill hole in throttle body plate to make the idle higher.....

[CamaroFred]

Originally Posted by lemontwist

i was also wondering i like your answer.
for 50+years people have be doing headers in the 80's computer controlled cars started and still you could do headers with no tuning but to get the most you might have put a chip in it.now to get the most you should get a tune i just don't get it for small bolt on's the computer should be able to read the a/f mixture and do it's own adjustment to the timing and the injector pulse.if you throw a turbo on it i understand it being to much for the ecm to handle. but for some reason that is not the case

Because the O2 sensors are moved farther from the cylinders you will encounter a delayed response to changes in the A/F.
A tune will correct that as well as optimizing the power gains. Some headers gain more then others with a tune.
A quote from ARH:

Recent dyno testing of our 1-7/8" system with cats produced gains of 32 RWHP without a tune and 50 RWHP with a tune. RWTQ was up 45 ft. lbs after the tune.

[lemontwist]

i stand by my statement...however i live 3 miles from pcm of nc formally pcm4less i had them remove the vats from my truck for my 5.3 swap and throw a generic tune on it to get it up and running.that being said i was told by there tuner (the bulk of there business is LS tunes) that gm was quite conservative with their fuel mapping and it run's kinda rich from gm.the gen 4's with the lt1 up to now a simple tune should get you anywhere from 25 to 45 hp with no mods at all and bolt on's just push that number up even more. a tune is not necessary but a good idea even on a stock motor. if you are on a limited budget i would do as many mods as i plan on doing before i got it tuned. my 2 cent's
with a auto the tune great for a better shifting trans no more shift kits just a tune. they quoted me 300 for a street tune and 500 for a full dyno tune.i did a magna flow cat back not doing headers but i will throw a cai on it then a tune for the hell of it.i'm going with this
ttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O6HEZ2M/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A2XHUDJ10YAG1N&psc=1
but i do not think a tune totally necessary you will more than likely not hurt anything.
is there anyone here that has documented damage caused form not doing a tune after headers???
if so please chime in.