Tune = no more powertrain warranty? Is this definitive?

[axis]

Originally Posted by franknbeans

There's guys on the SRT-4 board that got their warranty revoked because of a damn Blow off Valve.

But that "damn blowoff valve" allows you to run as much boost as you want, where the stock one won't. Increasing the boost +5psi could net you 50+whp.

Originally Posted by chevy454

Here is the "non-GM calibration" bulletin for gas engines...I'm sure they've updated this for the '10 models, but this will give you an idea.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Corporate Bulletin Number 08-06-04-033 is currently available in SI.

Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations 2.0L, 2.2L, 2.4L, 2.8L, 2.9L, 3.0L, 3.1L, 3.2L, 3.4L,
3.5L, 3.6L, 3.8L, 3.9L, 4.2L, 4.3L, 4.4L, 4.6L, 4.8L, 5.0L, 5.3L, 5.7L, 6.0L, 6.2L, 7.0L, 7.4L, 8.1L
Gas Powered Engines Only

Models: 2006–2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2006–2009 HUMMER H2, H3
Excluding Pontiac Vibe, G8, Chevrolet Aveo, All Saturn and Saab Models

Important: This bulletin applies to Gas Powered Engines ONLY. For Diesel Powered Engines, refer to Service Bulletin #08-06-04-006A.

If a suspicious hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission, transfer case or driveline, perform the calibration verification described to determine if a non-GM issued engine calibration is installed. Non-GM issued engine calibrations subject driveline components to stresses different than the calibrations which these components were validated to. Repairs to transmission, transfer case and/or other driveline components where a non-GM engine calibration has been verified are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

Instructions for Confirming Calibration Verification Number (CVN):

1. Go to TIS2WEB
2. Select "Calibration Information (SPS Info)"
3. Enter VIN
4. Select "Get Cal ID"
5. Select "ECM Engine Control Module"
6. Select "Next"
7. Select "Complete History"
8. Print
9. Take the printout to the vehicle along with the Tech 2®
10. Plug in the Tech 2®
11. Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle
12. Select "Powertrain"
13. Select "Engine"
14. *Select "Engine Control Module" or "PCM"
15. *Select "Module ID Information" or "I/M Information System" if module ID information selection is not available.
16. *If "I/M information System" was selected in step 15, it may be necessary to select "Vehicle Information" in order to display the calibration information.
17. Compare the calibration ID and Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) to the Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) on the printout.

* Steps may vary by controller.

Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it's the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued. If ALL of the CVN's are EXACTLY the same, the calibration is GM issued.

If the part numbers match and ANY CVN's DO NOT match the printout, it is likely that a non-GM certified calibration has been installed.

If the CVN information is displayed as "N/A", it will be necessary to contact the TCSC to obtain the CVN information.

If a non-GM calibration is found to be in the ECM (CVN's on the Tech 2 do not match TIS printout) - In order to document the case — a CLEAR digital picture should be taken of the Tech 2® screen showing the VIN and the CVN's that do not match the TIS2WEB printout. The picture, VIN and reason the vehicle is currently in for service should be emailed to JAY.DANKOVICH@GM.COM and STEVEN.R. BRIDSON@GM.COM for verification. Please copy your GM District Service Manager (DVM) on the e-mail. GM will verify if the CVN's are not GM issued and respond via e-mail within 72 hours.

Where does it say that it's REQUIRED to show the Tech II screen to get warranty work? I will agree that IF the dealer wants to deny your claim AND IF it is detectable that there was ever a different tune in it, they could use it to justify not fixing your vehicle under warranty. I've seen some LS1 Camaros and Vettes that have had engine work done, under warranty, that had the nitrous solenoids sitting there in plain sight, along with the SS lines. In the end, it's do it at your own risk. For those that have a good relationship with the dealer, I'd check with your "source" to see what they have to say about it. I highly doubt anyone is going to give you a definitive "yes it's ok". Many will have warranty work done without a problem but some dealer somewhere may want to go the extreme.

On a related note, do you honestly think i'm going to have the dealer fix my car if it's not warranty related? At their inflated parts and hourly prices, there's no way. They also know this so it's in their best interest to do the warranty work and make some $$. I'm sure it isn't the same reimbursment as me walking in and paying for it, but it's better than nothing.

[speeflo]

What about having your car tuned then say ur transmission breaks then u take and download ur stock file back in. I was told that if u reprogram ur car to stock 10 times there will be no proof of a tune . Now if ur computer breaks and there's no way to tune in then I guess u would be screwed , what about playing it dumb and say I don't know what ur talking about ?

[chevy454]

Originally Posted by axis

Where does it say that it's REQUIRED to show the Tech II screen to get warranty work? I will agree that IF the dealer wants to deny your claim AND IF it is detectable that there was ever a different tune in it, they could use it to justify not fixing your vehicle under warranty.

I don't believe the Duramax bulletin mentions it's *required* either...but it sure as heck is, if the dealer wants to be reimbursed for warranty work...that's a fact. The Camaro (and other '10+ cars?) uses the Global Diagnostic system, which my buddy (service manager) says is directly tied to GM online, and he says they can see everything on the car. You're a GM tech, maybe you could shed some more light on how that GDS or whatever works compared to the Tech II maybe? I've not seen it in action yet, but watch him walk through the Tech II stuff all the time on my Dmax and any other rig he's working on while I'm hanging out...

Originally Posted by speeflo

What about having your car tuned then say ur transmission breaks then u take and download ur stock file back in. I was told that if u reprogram ur car to stock 10 times there will be no proof of a tune . Now if ur computer breaks and there's no way to tune in then I guess u would be screwed , what about playing it dumb and say I don't know what ur talking about ?

That's not the way it works...it will be the last 10 unique cvn #s I believe...it won't just show cvn # 11-444-ss ten times, but just once...if 11-445-ss is loaded, it will be logged next since it's different. I have no concrete proof if the new Camaro logs cvn #s like the Dmax trucks, but I can't see GM *not* doing keeping an eye on them, since it could pose a liability financially and everyone and their brother is wanting to throw a tune on their Camaro (the Duramax guys are waaaay ahead of everyone on this tune/warranty deal).

[Edrock]

As this has been said different ways 100 times before on this site, when you mod the car, you roll the dice IF anything goes wrong with it after that. You can quote all the lawsuits and legislation on which party has to prove what but it does not change the fact that it is all a gamble. By that, I mean, there will be some out there that will mod their cars, have problems, and still get warranty service (depending on the issue) and then there will be some out there that will mod, have problems, and get no sympathy from GM. That's life and there is no rebuttle for this fact. This is not a legislation debate. This all comes down to the willingness of the car owner to gamble on warranty coverage. That's basically what we're all weighing here. "Do I mod now and hope for the best or wait until warranty is over and do what I want anyway?"

My advice: Either go mod and enjoy the hell out of it without worry of powertrain warranty (pay to play), OR, keep it stock and enjoy the hell out of it and mod later after warranty period (still pay to play). It is as simple as that. There is no "cake and eat it too" position here so get over it. Don't whine thinking GM is going to come forward eventually and say "OK, due to popular demand, we are now going to cover mods in our 100,000 mile powertrain warranty" cause it ain't gonna happen. Again, this is just my advice. I hope this helps those trying to make decisions because this subject has been beat to death. Sorry for the rant. Enjoy your cars!!!

[CynAgain]

Originally Posted by axis

But that "damn blowoff valve" allows you to run as much boost as you want, where the stock one won't. Increasing the boost +5psi could net you 50+whp.



Where does it say that it's REQUIRED to show the Tech II screen to get warranty work? I will agree that IF the dealer wants to deny your claim AND IF it is detectable that there was ever a different tune in it, they could use it to justify not fixing your vehicle under warranty. I've seen some LS1 Camaros and Vettes that have had engine work done, under warranty, that had the nitrous solenoids sitting there in plain sight, along with the SS lines. In the end, it's do it at your own risk. For those that have a good relationship with the dealer, I'd check with your "source" to see what they have to say about it. I highly doubt anyone is going to give you a definitive "yes it's ok". Many will have warranty work done without a problem but some dealer somewhere may want to go the extreme.

On a related note, do you honestly think i'm going to have the dealer fix my car if it's not warranty related? At their inflated parts and hourly prices, there's no way. They also know this so it's in their best interest to do the warranty work and make some $$. I'm sure it isn't the same reimbursment as me walking in and paying for it, but it's better than nothing.

You might not, but I don't have anyone outside the system I would trust with the work at this point.

When my Exploder died last month it was out of warranty and I did take it back to the dealer. They are the only ones who have touched it and I have the paper work to show it. It turned out the PCM needed to be replaced and guess what??? It had its own warranty outside everything else and it was covered to 80,000 miles.

I had 79,000+ on the truck. Repaired for free

Originally Posted by chevy454

I don't believe the Duramax bulletin mentions it's *required* either...but it sure as heck is, if the dealer wants to be reimbursed for warranty work...that's a fact. The Camaro (and other '10+ cars?) uses the Global Diagnostic system, which my buddy (service manager) says is directly tied to GM online, and he says they can see everything on the car. You're a GM tech, maybe you could shed some more light on how that GDS or whatever works compared to the Tech II maybe? I've not seen it in action yet, but watch him walk through the Tech II stuff all the time on my Dmax and any other rig he's working on while I'm hanging out...


That's not the way it works...it will be the last 10 unique cvn #s I believe...it won't just show cvn # 11-444-ss ten times, but just once...if 11-445-ss is loaded, it will be logged next since it's different. I have no concrete proof if the new Camaro logs cvn #s like the Dmax trucks, but I can't see GM *not* doing keeping an eye on them, since it could pose a liability financially and everyone and their brother is wanting to throw a tune on their Camaro (the Duramax guys are waaaay ahead of everyone on this tune/warranty deal).

Wow! Thanks for the detail.

Originally Posted by Edrock

As this has been said different ways 100 times before on this site, when you mod the car, you roll the dice IF anything goes wrong with it after that. You can quote all the lawsuits and legislation on which party has to prove what but it does not change the fact that it is all a gamble. By that, I mean, there will be some out there that will mod their cars, have problems, and still get warranty service (depending on the issue) and then there will be some out there that will mod, have problems, and get no sympathy from GM. That's life and there is no rebuttle for this fact. This is not a legislation debate. This all comes down to the willingness of the car owner to gamble on warranty coverage. That's basically what we're all weighing here. "Do I mod now and hope for the best or wait until warranty is over and do what I want anyway?"

My advice: Either go mod and enjoy the hell out of it without worry of powertrain warranty (pay to play), OR, keep it stock and enjoy the hell out of it and mod later after warranty period (still pay to play). It is as simple as that. There is no "cake and eat it too" position here so get over it. Don't whine thinking GM is going to come forward eventually and say "OK, due to popular demand, we are now going to cover mods in our 100,000 mile powertrain warranty" cause it ain't gonna happen. Again, this is just my advice. I hope this helps those trying to make decisions because this subject has been beat to death. Sorry for the rant. Enjoy your cars!!!

[wrek]

I can't believe there isn't a computer hacker on here with a Camaro. These guys find ways around everything. Console gaming systems (xbox, PS3, etc) can be hacked to "appear" stock when online but still play pirated games... why can't one of those geniuses figure out how to flash the computer into a backup EPROM that can be used to "re-stockify" the computer should we need to take the tune off?

I can image my home PC and then do whatever I want to the software on it, when I restore the image, the home PC has NO IDEA it was ever anything but what it is now...

This is why I like the performance chips. You can put the old chip back in anytime you want. I don't know if the computer still knows it had a new chip in it or not though.

[rodimus prime]

Well my car is stalled with long tubes, CAI and a tune. My dealer knows about it and is still fixing the leaking oil cooler lines, so I dont know if this applies to TSB'S or not. But its been there a couple times without problems.