E85 final timing

[Rem0v3r]

What type of final timing numbers are you guys getting on e85.. please include boost level and ethanol % for reference.

[RupertPupkin]

Mine is TBD...

[dreksnot]

SBE LS3 had 16* at 17psi with E66
LSX has 15* at 20psi with E66 (so far) 11:1CR

[hillshooter]

20 degrees at 23 pounds with 10:1 compression. E70 . I run 18 degrees though more commonly because even though I make more power on the dyno, It doesnt translate on the street.

[RyangAsh]

LSA 15 LBS e80, 31-32 degrees WOT. If it's a hot night it will pull 1 degree from a 40-140mph pull..

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by RyangAsh

LSA 15 LBS e80, 31-32 degrees WOT. If it's a hot night it will pull 1 degree from a 40-140mph pull..

Good god. No meth? I know PD blowers typically run more timing, but usually in the 23-24 range. Or so I thought.

Still tuning with Ted, but seeing around 13.5-14 degrees at 19#s on E77. Zero KR, not a hint.

SBE...

[RyangAsh]

Originally Posted by eLeSthree

Good god. No meth? I know PD blowers typically run more timing, but usually in the 23-24 range. Or so I thought.

Still tuning with Ted, but seeing around 13.5-14 degrees at 19#s on E77. Zero KR, not a hint.

SBE...

I thought he asked total timing? No, no meth...

Edit: It won't let me through a data log up to show you...car runs pretty fantastic..

It also has cooling mods and a few other mods not listed in sig..

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by RyangAsh

I thought he asked total timing? No, no meth...

Edit: It won't let me through a data log up to show you...car runs pretty fantastic..

It also has cooling mods and a few other mods not listed in sig..

I'm not doubting it's correct for your setup. Just surprising how much difference there is between applications.

[stevieturbo]

Originally Posted by RyangAsh

LSA 15 LBS e80, 31-32 degrees WOT. If it's a hot night it will pull 1 degree from a 40-140mph pull..

Sounds like a lot as others say, although the LSA is lower CR that a lot of guys seem to run these days

Was that come about on the dyno ? Or just a bit of a guess ?

[RyangAsh]

Originally Posted by stevieturbo

Sounds like a lot as others say, although the LSA is lower CR that a lot of guys seem to run these days

Was that come about on the dyno ? Or just a bit of a guess ?

Absolutely no guessing. Lots of logging to get fueling perfect before adding final timing.

I'd be happy to share some data logs since I cannot seem to get a screenshot to work...lol

[stevieturbo]

Originally Posted by RyangAsh

Absolutely no guessing. Lots of logging to get fueling perfect before adding final timing.

I'd be happy to share some data logs since I cannot seem to get a screenshot to work...lol

So it was not on a dyno to ascertain MBT ?

There is no perfect fueling....a wide range of AFR's really wont make much difference unless you go lean enough for it to go bang lol

I do have what I presume is a standard map for EFILive from a 2012 LSA car, which too seems to have a lot of timing in the high octane table. Although as I've no references as to airflow the vehicle might actually see....cant say what timing it would actually run
But the numbers in the table where higher than I would have thought. ( But I've no access to such a car, nor do I use stock ecu's...so dont know really )

The high octane table for regular fuel. I seen no corrections for flex fuel. So maybe 30deg on E could be viable. Would be nice to see on a dyno if it was actually needed or actually improving things up there, and also listening correctly for any knock

[RobZL1]

Ryan is the only guy I know of that's running 30+ deg on an LSA, FWIW.

Ryan's question about "total timing" makes me think maybe he's actually running 24-25 or so degrees total timing but is then adding the flex fuel spark channel to the total ignition advance channel in the log, winding up with what looks like 31-32 timing, but in fact it's actually something like 25 actual advance MINUS 6, MINUS PE adder to get back to the base high octane table value.

Is that a possible scenario Ryan? I'd think 31-32 degrees of timing would be well past MBT.

Running a stock cam with a 3.18 pulley ratio would typically have 93-oct base timing advance table in the realm of 16-18 degrees. Add maybe 5-6 degrees for E (and maybe a couple more for however the PE advance table is set up), and then you're at about 24-25 degrees delivered timing or so, assuming no IAT2 timing reduction.

Like the other guys, I'm not questioning the setup or the numbers in the logs. Maybe it's just an interpretation of numbers in the logs. Are you logging/tuning with HPT, EFI, or SCT?

I'm just genuinely curious here, not trying to incite anything or come off as anything other than inquisitive and wanting to learn.

[stevieturbo]

It is difficult to tell from a screenshot of 1 or 2 tables from a map, what an engine may be running at any given time. Exactly what airflow and any corrections being applied.

Ultimately a datalog of the event will give the true picture, of exactly what it is running and under what load and conditions etc.

But if it has been running for some time and used hard at that without issue...maybe that's where it is happy.

[WEISHAAR37]

Ive tuned a good number if 7-800hp range LSA cars here at GPIin the last year or so and have never been anywhere close to 30+ degrees even on E. most cars make the best power between 19-24 degrees. once the next added degree picks up less than 8-10 hp I am done adding timing.

the only blower car ive ever seen run that much timing was a ZR1 that came in from somewhere in Nevada. it had 32 degrees. I strapped it down and quickly learned that it made peak power at 23.5 and actually lost 5hp going up to 25 degrees. car was on E and made 14# boost stock longblock LS9

3 weeks later the car came back with low compression on cylinder 5. the edges of all the pistons were completely destroyed.

this is why if I were you I would put that car on a dyno, start at 20 degrees and keep adding till it stops picking up power. I bet anything I have that you will get nowhere near 30 using this method...


Ben Weishar
Gwatney Performance Innovation