THE METH INJECTION Q&A FROM AN OLD GUY

[JANNETTYRACING]

Let me start off by saying everything has a place in the performance world and I am not against WM injection but feel like I need to share the potential downsides so people are more informed.

Probably one of the most asked questions I hear and see, because they are advertised to add power with no details as to how that power was achieved.

I have been dealing with Water meth Injection since 1981 LOL showing my age.

Q1. How much power will I get form adding Meth injection?

The truth is this is a loaded question and the short answer is NO, and the long answer is Yes there is potential.

Take a fully tuned car on gasoline, whether it is supercharged or NA turn the system on and LOSE 30 RWHP. TRUTH.

Q2. Then how do I get more power from WM injection?

Through Tuning, it must be combined with less fuel through the injection and more timing and this is where it gets hairy, a pump, line, solenoid, nozzle failure or running out of WM, can take out the engine when the fuel stops flowing you will have too much timing and not enough fuel for the air flow entering the engine.

Q3. Why does everyone recommend it on the internet.

LOL because crap flows downhill and gains momentum.

Q4. What applications best utilize WM injection

Water Meth injection works best on NON intercooled supercharged applications at what we deem at normal boost levels 8-12 psi. or very high boost applications that are intercooled but unable to keep IAT in check.

Q5. I don't have enough fuel to support my Supercharger can I just add WM injection.

This is a bad Idea on so many levels, NEVER use WM injection to supplement an inadequate fuel system for target HP.

Q6. At What IAT should I consider WM injection

I feel like 150 IAT is Normal and if your IAT is consistently above that start looking at the intercooler system first, not put a bandaid on a broken leg.

Once you have exhausted all options to improve your intercooler system then we start to consider WM injection.

Example on my personal car 1300 HP 427 with 25 PSI boost on Race gas My IAT starts a 100 degrees and was 200 degrees at the Stripe in a 1/4 Mile so this is a case where the enormous intercooler is just being overwhelmed by the heat production of the supercharger and needs some Help so I added Meth injection for intercooling.

Q7. I only have 91 octane but want to run 15 psi boost on my intercooled supercharged engine.

This is a case where Octane is the limiter and we can use Meth injection to supplement Octane and provide some IAT reduction but again refer to Q2. answer.

The better option is to add Octane.

Q.7 How much timing must be added to take advantage of WM injection?

This will vary widely with combination but in most cases 4-6 degrees before you start to see more power than on pump gasoline alone, SEE THE DANGER HERE?

Q.8 how much fuel do I have to pull from the tune.

That will vary widely based on combination, nozzle size, and controller settings, so the more WM you inject the more Fuel you must take away from the tune, SEE THE DANGER HERE?

Q.9 is WM dependable?

In my experience of dealing with it since 1981 the short answer is no, and that gets worse with installation and maintenance techniques.

Yes systems have gotten better but not to the point where I feel comfortable installing on every car that comes in the door like many shops.

Opportunity to sell something good or bad, OH they work great you need one, SMH.

I am not looking for any chest puffers to dispute anything stated here with their 1 experience with 1 system, this is meant to be informative discussion that anyone is welcome to ask more questions and add to the discussion.

As questions are asked I will add them to this thread along with my answers.

[dreksnot]

I've been pondering WM injection JUST for IAT reduction. Similar boat with 427 and wanting to run 25-28psi boost. Starting at 100*F and ending with 168*F after the 1/4-mile with only 20psi leads me to believe I'm going to be in excess of 200*F when I turn up the boost. Yes, I've got a DeWitt radiator with Spal fans to install, and I'm presuming that may help a little bit to pull more air through the intercooler. If that doesn't help much (as I'm presuming), then WM appears to be about the next step to reduce IATs. I don't desire to maintain a tank, but that appears to be what I signed up for.

Not knowing WM stuff, would I be able to add WM in a minimal way, meaning a smaller versus a larger nozzle, just to reduce IATs? And, just with that in mine, could/should I run lower concentrations away from 50/50 or 100% meth? Will attempting to lower IATs (with minimal effort) require adjustment to my tune (changing fueling)? I'd just like to have a little something that lowers IATs, to keep them below 200*F - that's all.

[tartagliazl1]

Ted sounds like he takes a ton of calls asking about meth, and he just vented lol

[Risingson05]

So what would you do if only 90oct was available to use and you want to ecu to stop pulling timing @wot ? Here in Alaska we don’t have the luxury of e-85 readily available at the pumps , only one place sells race gas here and is pretty limited and is a pain mixing it .

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

I've been pondering WM injection JUST for IAT reduction. Similar boat with 427 and wanting to run 25-28psi boost. Starting at 100*F and ending with 168*F after the 1/4-mile with only 20psi leads me to believe I'm going to be in excess of 200*F when I turn up the boost. Yes, I've got a DeWitt radiator with Spal fans to install, and I'm presuming that may help a little bit to pull more air through the intercooler. If that doesn't help much (as I'm presuming), then WM appears to be about the next step to reduce IATs. I don't desire to maintain a tank, but that appears to be what I signed up for.

Not knowing WM stuff, would I be able to add WM in a minimal way, meaning a smaller versus a larger nozzle, just to reduce IATs? And, just with that in mine, could/should I run lower concentrations away from 50/50 or 100% meth? Will attempting to lower IATs (with minimal effort) require adjustment to my tune (changing fueling)? I'd just like to have a little something that lowers IATs, to keep them below 200*F - that's all.

If your only goal is lowering IAT then Distilled Water is your best option because it has ability to absorb heat and will not affect the fueling, but will take more timing or more boost.

If you need more octane then by all means run Straight meth but do not add timing just add boost and tune the meth system to only lower the Lambda from .78 to .74 let it be a little rich it won't hurt power.

Ted.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Risingson05

So what would you do if only 90oct was available to use and you want to ecu to stop pulling timing @wot ? Here in Alaska we don’t have the luxury of e-85 readily available at the pumps , only one place sells race gas here and is pretty limited and is a pain mixing it .

You have to understand why we pull timing vs IAT.

the higher the IAT the faster the burn so later timing is require that does not mean you losing power contrary to internet banter.

It makes less power because the Air density changes to less Oxygen as IAT goes up.

Speeding up the burn requires higher and higher octane.

Things that speed up the burn are More cylinder pressure, more Air temp, More cooling system temp, Lower octane so less timing lead is required.

You will always find a limit of octane before you find the limits of the combination.

Hope this makes sense.

Ted.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by tartagliazl1

Ted sounds like he takes a ton of calls asking about meth, and he just vented lol

Yes and no just want to share some knowledge because Facebook is a farmers best tool to fertilize the field

Ted.

[tartagliazl1]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Yes and no just want to share some knowledge because Facebook is a farmers best tool to fertilize the field

Ted.

Good thing i don’t have Facebook.

[RupertPupkin]

Good info.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by tartagliazl1

Ted sounds like he takes a ton of calls asking about meth, and he just vented lol

It is a crime that facebook has taken so many enthusiast away from these forums as this platform is much clearer and easier to both follow conversations, look up information and so forth.

I belong to quite a few groups and never in my life have I seen so much manure spreading, it is an epidemic that I feel is greatly hurting the whole hobby.

Ted.

[HOJO]

Thanks for the info Ted, I appreciate the time you take out of your busy schedule to help educate all of us. Not many are willing to do that. Again many thanks.

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by HOJO

Thanks for the info Ted, I appreciate the time you take out of your busy schedule to help educate all of us. Not many are willing to do that. Again many thanks.

It gets better once you're his customer. (not sure that you aren't). Just working with him for a couple weeks now, and we've uncovered a few issues already. Working through the bugs quickly, making good progress

[RupertPupkin]

Originally Posted by eLeSthree

It gets better once you're his customer. (not sure that you aren't). Just working with him for a couple weeks now, and we've uncovered a few issues already. Working through the bugs quickly, making good progress

Issues with ESS?

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by RupertPupkin

Issues with ESS?

No fuel supply and bypass but all fixed now.