L99 AFM -- It's REALLY a tough choice, for some. Step Inside.

[DGthe3]

"The fastest way to get an engineer to do something is to tell him its impossible"

Active fuel management + manual transmission = impossible . . .
lets see how long it takes them

[theholycow]

You forgot one important part: You didn't tell that to an engineer...

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by theholycow

You forgot one important part: You didn't tell that to an engineer...

I already said for manuals, make AFM a manually actuated system. It comes on when you hit a switch and have the clutch in. No driveline shock, no problems! (Patent Pending)

[Beyond Limits]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I already said for manuals, make AFM a manually actuated system. It comes on when you hit a switch and have the clutch in. No driveline shock, no problems! (Patent Pending)

You have a good idea there imo, but come on, let's be realistic here... There are so many brain dead people around today that we have to put warning labels on irons telling users not to iron shirts while on their body, and that the sunshade should not be left in the windshield while driving, and "Caution! Contents Hot!" on their coffee cup.

I mean how long do you seriously think it would take for the first lawsuit to arise because someone activated this system and then sued because their car only made half the amount of power it was supposed to... Any time you make something manual you introduce the ability for some "genius" to figure out how to bypass the interlocks and screw something up for the rest of us. And no matter how stupid of a lawsuit that sounds like it would cost GM a fortune defending itself from nonsense like that.

[2KZ28_For_Now]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

"The fastest way to get an engineer to do something is to tell him its impossible"

Active fuel management + manual transmission = impossible . . .
lets see how long it takes them

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I already said for manuals, make AFM a manually actuated system. It comes on when you hit a switch and have the clutch in. No driveline shock, no problems! (Patent Pending)

You know, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this is already in development, or done. They probably haven't thought it feasible due to the "human factor" as stated above, even though the tech behind it is probably fleshed out.

Or, maybe they figured the extra R&D money wasn't worth it. How many people would buy it if they built it?

Very interesting and thoughtful series of responses here. Nice job to the Camaro5 forum faithful!!

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Beyond Limits

You have a good idea there imo, but come on, let's be realistic here... There are so many brain dead people around today that we have to put warning labels on irons telling users not to iron shirts while on their body, and that the sunshade should not be left in the windshield while driving, and "Caution! Contents Hot!" on their coffee cup.

I mean how long do you seriously think it would take for the first lawsuit to arise because someone activated this system and then sued because their car only made half the amount of power it was supposed to... Any time you make something manual you introduce the ability for some "genius" to figure out how to bypass the interlocks and screw something up for the rest of us. And no matter how stupid of a lawsuit that sounds like it would cost GM a fortune defending itself from nonsense like that.

Well, you have to consider this IS a manual. There must be some level of competence implied by the fact that the driver is driving a stick, right? I know EXACTLY what you're saying about these lawsuit-lotto idiots out there suing over hot coffee and such, but think of it this way... what's the difference between switching AFM on manually at the wrong time and say, downshifting into 1st gear at 90MPH? I think they can be safe from lawsuits under that scenario, right?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by theholycow

You forgot one important part: You didn't tell that to an engineer...

I'm sure an engineer has read it by now, besides someone probably already told the guys at GM powertrain the same thing about 30 years ago (Cadillac 8-6-4)

[MajorTom]

If you can mod the auto and that's what you really want, I'd do it. I can understand wanting more power.

If it's what you want in a car, I think the auto will be a great transmission.. If I'm not mistaken, BMW sources their 6-speed autos from GM. That's for 6 cylinder cars, but still. It should say a thing or two about their quality at least. And they'll be so consistent in acceleration runs you'll be likely to beat a stock LS3 Camaro most of the time. If you like driving an automatic and the benefits of them, there's no reason not to buy it.

But the paddle shifters won't be as fun as a true manual. My brother has a Grand Prix with the 4L60e with paddle shifters and it's nothing like a real manual. It doesn't hold gears, it overrides your shifting sometimes. It's just not the same..

And I have a GTO with a M6 and it's very easy to drive in traffic. LS engines have so much torque, you're not having to shift all the time like you would in a 4-cylinder car. Not to mention a manual makes you pay more attention to driving. Which is why we like performance cars.

About the fuel economy issue, I think that it'll vary. The M6 will depend on the driver for economy more than the auto. And Manual transmission cars are known for better economy anyway. Depending on how we drive it in the city, the M6 will have the edge there. And on the highway, the auto might make up for it.

[GTAHVIT]

Once you know the rules and processes, software can do just about anything you tell it to. You just need to capture all the conditions/rules the software has to follow and implement.

It can be done.... Errr I mean, NO, it can't, it's impossible.

[Emher]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

And I have a GTO with a M6 and it's very easy to drive in traffic. LS engines have so much torque, you're not having to shift all the time like you would in a 4-cylinder car.

That sounds VERY encouraging I must say. I don't switch all the time, but I'd be lying if I said that there's wasn't a bit of shifting going on in traffic.

[linkwpc]

Ok how about the sound of the LS3 and L99. For me I love the sound of a V8 at idle, at WOT, and at a long cruse down the street. But I think you cannot get all of the with the L99. When you idle you are running only 4's and when you are crusing you are running on 4's too right? You can only get the true V8 sound when you are starting to go, and thats about it. For me, I want a Auto. But I like manuals too, it just that I live in LA. But I really really want my V8 sound all the time, not just sometimes....(I'm going to add some bassanis) So I'm going for the LS3

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by linkwpc

When you idle you are running only 4's and when you are crusing you are running on 4's too right? You can only get the true V8 sound when you are starting to go, and thats about it.

How many times do I have to tell you people? RTFM FFS! It's in the previous page of this thread...

Originally Posted by camaro1

Here is the complete AFM/DOD description straight from the gm service manual:

The engine will operate on 8 cylinders or V8 mode, during engine starting, engine idling, and medium to heavy throttle applications.

You're ONLY going to be in 4 cylinder mode during light cruising.

It will be easy to disable with any of a million minor modifications. I suspect that putting the transmission in "Sport" mode will turn off AFM, too; I'm pretty sure that putting a GM truck's transmission in "Tow/Haul" mode does.

[Beyond Limits]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Well, you have to consider this IS a manual. There must be some level of competence implied by the fact that the driver is driving a stick, right? I know EXACTLY what you're saying about these lawsuit-lotto idiots out there suing over hot coffee and such, but think of it this way... what's the difference between switching AFM on manually at the wrong time and say, downshifting into 1st gear at 90MPH? I think they can be safe from lawsuits under that scenario, right?

And sadly I am sure someone out there has tried that as well.

Like I said, I think you do have a good idea, I just don’t see GM risk management (read Lawyers) allowing something like that to happen. Imagine this scenario. They implement this system and some person figures out how to bypass the system so that they can engage AFM any time they like by throwing the switch. So this person is driving down the freeway with AFM engaged and a semi (let’s just say it’s out of control for these purposes) comes screaming up on them. Now in their panic they forget to turn off AFM and they are unable to accelerate fast enough to get out of the way since only half the cylinders are on. The impact ends up killing the driver. Now their estate turns around and sues GM because the car was only capable of making 1/3 the advertised power at the time because AFM was engaged when it was not supposed to (even though the individual purposely disabled the interlocks since they are not alive to testify it would be the word of the “expert” the estate could easily find against GM). Sadly because of our messed up court system GM would most likely lose that case and they would have to pay out millions in damages to the estate, plus millions more in the forced recall that would be likely as part of the settlement agreement. And because of nonsense like that a good idea like yours will unfortunately never make it off the concept board, which sucks but is a sad reality of the society we live in today.

[2KZ28_For_Now]

Whoa - Bummer, dude.

I'm going to "stick" with the LS3. Thanks for trying to talk me out of it. But, it didn't work.