Why RAM Air is a myth!!! Long Read (Wall of text)

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Did you read what you posted, In a dynamic pressure as the car moves there is an increase, and in a static pressure, car not moving no increase.
No one said that it makes air pressure in a static car has to move that is what increases the pressure.
And as the post said

Superchargers and
turbochargers do what the mythical ram air purports to do. A supercharger trades the
power of the belt and uses it to compress the air in the intake tract. This energy trade-off
results in an increase in intake air pressure

Yes but the car is running and in the ram air units the car needs to move.

Claims
It would be very easy to validate any Ram Air claim made. I am a pilot, we have manifold pressure guages on a lot of small plane engines. Install one on the LS3 and make a couple runs. One with a LMR or whatever, and one with a Vararam or whatever, and report the MANIFOLD pressure.

On my planes, your barometric pressure is your WOT manifold pressure. As you gain altitude you loose about an inch of pressure( and related power) per thousand feet.

If the ram air works you should see a gain over barometric pressure as speed gets to a certain point. I doubt you will reach that point in your Camaro.

[live2well]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

Did you read what you posted, In a dynamic pressure as the car moves there is an increase, and in a static pressure, car not moving no increase.
No one said that it makes air pressure in a static car has to move that is what increases the pressure.
And as the post said


Yes but the car is running and in the ram air units the car needs to move.

But your still missing the point of my post. RAM AIR does NOT and can NOT work until mach 0.3. So on our cars RAM AIR does NOT come in to play.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

No you are as GM has a ram air in your car now.

[live2well]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

No you are as GM has a ram air in your car now.

Oh we have what one may call a RAM AIR but it is non functional. By non functional I mean the RAM AIR effect only performs a percentage of a percent. So for all intent and purpose it is NON functional.

And on top of that GM is in the business to sell cars. RAM AIR is a nice catch phrase. Which in all likely hood will increase sales. They are still wrong in calling it a RAM AIR. ( YES I SAID THE MIGHTY GM IS WRONG) LOL

RAM AIR is a product of many variables not all of which can be met by most cars. I feel my post is pretty accurate description of what RAM AIR is and how it is formulated. We will just have to agree to disagree. I will stand by my post until someone can mathematically prove that theory wrong. I have yet to see it done. Here or anywhere else.

[LightningSS]

Can we stop flogging this dead horse...

[live2well]

Originally Posted by LightningSS

Can we stop flogging this dead horse...

Come on man there is nothing wrong with a good ole debate.


I am just glad 2SSRS is nice enough to engage in a healthy debate without making it personal. We dont have to agree to learn something from each other.


On top of that Horse meat makes good burgers.....LOL

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by live2well

Come on man there is nothing wrong with a good ole debate.


I am just glad 2SSRS is nice enough to engage in a healthy debate without making it personal. We dont have to agree to learn something from each other.


On top of that Horse meat makes good burgers.....LOL

If you believe no ram air or yes ram air, It is how we act that maters not what we believe, As for a good healthy debate i believe that is missing in the USA right now, and being Seville to all is a good way to be in life.

[dmo]

I never misinterpreted the meaning of a "ram air" hood. It's an aesthetic name to classify the type of hood.

[Halltech]

The Internet is a great place for information. "MythBusters" is one of my favorite programs, but they try not to jump to conclusions based on internet folklore and urban legends.

Wheres the proof? What testing has been done to disprove ram air?
Ram Air is a scientific fact in supersonic aircraft, but what about subsonic?
Check it out:

Please read the testing done by Sport Rider Magazine, then if you feel it is still just a myth, that's fine, but at least they did testing. Wilkpedia, likewise disputes ram air as a mere myth.

I challenge you to read the articles below, and if you still believe it is a myth when you finish the articles, so be it.
1995 Sport Rider Magazine Testing apparatus:
"So how much horsepower is ram-air induction really worth? Astute SR readers will recall Jon Doran's ram air/dyno test (Ram air: What's it worth?") in the August '95 issue. While the article was well done, we decided to take the concept a step further. We took one of Pi Research's advanced, System 3 data-acquisition systems and hooked up one of its air-pressure sensors into the airbox of eight different modern sportbikes. We also mounted a wheel-speed sensor which allowed us to precisely measure and compare roadspeed with airbox pressure. Absconding with all the motorcycles to our top-secret, high-desert test site, we then proceeded to wring the piss out of each machine and gather data from each of the top-speed runs."
" The ram air intake works by reducing the intake air velocity by increasing the cross sectional area of the intake ducting. When gas velocity goes down the dynamic pressure is reduced while the static pressure is increased. The increased static pressure in the plenum chamber has a positive effect on engine power, both because of the pressure itself and the increased air density this higher pressure gives." At low speeds (subsonic speeds) increases in static pressure are however limited to a few percent" Wikipedia
" YAMAHA YZF-R6: Here is obvious proof that ram air works on smaller-displacement engines. Ram air helps the R6 hold its peak power higher and longer (12,000-14,000 rpm), and the torque curve is higher and flatter as well. This isn't just an incremental increase on top, either. We're talking about an average difference of five horsepower through the midrange and a far more usable power spread. The ram-air assisted reading would probably be higher at 13,000 rpm, but we were unable to generate the required airbox pressure on that particular run at that point." Sport Rider Magazine
"SUZUKI GSX1300R HAYABUSA: Even though the Hayabusa posted median pressure numbers during our top-speed test and didn't build pressure beyond ambient until 145 mph, it's apparent that any internal-combustion motor benefits from ram-air induction. The reason the power curve is tailing off a bit around 9500 rpm is because the Suzuki's mondo engine was basically beginning to require more air than we could feed it at that point. It was the only motorcycle we ram-air-dynoed that left both compressors gasping for breath. And again, the Hayabusa suffered from leakage around the airbox/ram-air duct junctions, which possibly prevented it from posting higher numbers."
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9.../photo_07.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram-air_intake
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9910_ram/index.html
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9508_ram/index.html
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9912_ram/index.html
We have dynamic proof through years of testing a the IDBA Drags, where ram air boxes became the big deal in the 70s. Once it was discovered to work and add trap speed with changes in the carburetors and jetting, it became a standard in building drag bikes. The bike manufactures picked up on this idea years later.



Halltech has no dog in this fight, since we do not make or advertise a ram air system for the Camaro, but our competition does. In the years that one company has claimed ram air, there is really no proof of +ambient intake manifold pressure with their induction system. Maybe this time it will be different.

Jim Hall

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Nice find, I hope that this time the proof of ambient intake manifold pressure will be there too.

[Halltech]

The quote you posted in the first post has this statement:

The Deeper Explanation begins with a basic explanation of engine principles. Air and fuel must be combusted at a specific ratio, namely, 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel (this is a chemical ratio of mass, known as a stoichiometric ratio). Stuffing more fuel into the cylinders without increasing the amount of air they also swallow will get no gain whatsoever. So the hot rodder’s adage “more air = more power” is proven correct. Figure out a way to stuff more air into the cylinder at any given RPM and throttle setting, and you can burn more fuel. Since burning fuel is what makes power, more air truly does create more power.

The assumption that he is making is that the engine must have this a/f ratio to combust; this is not true except during closed loop. During WOT (over 19% throttle position) the LS3 is in Open Loop Power Enrichment not closed loop as he assumes. Combustion on the modern LS series motors during closed loop continuously and dynamically seek 14.7:1 air fuel, but that ratio is only reconciled by the O2 sensors under 19% throttle position. Ask yourself if ram air applies to his parameters.

Beyond 19% TP you go into fuel enrichment code which is around 11.3:1 air fuel ratio on the LS3. During fuel enrichment, there is plenty of excess fuel that could be burned by more oxygen in the intake IF you had a true ram air induction system. A perfectly built ram air box with converging air scoops, sealed, and preferably without a filter.

In addition, the Mass Airflow Sensor would register the increase in the mass of air and automatically increase the pulse width of the injectors to compensate fuel to the commanded fuel enrichment code.

Here is my point of argument with his statement: Ram air could never be effective under stochiometric circumstances or closed loop since you would necessarily have to have speeds of around 120 mph for ram air to work, and remember, closed loop only operates under 19% throttle. What car can do 120 mph at 18% throttle position? His statement of stoichiometry has no bearing on ram air dynamics, except to say you will end up with surging and bucking and likely lean codes. So why does he refer to circumstances that are not plausible in the real world?

Just asking.

[CamaroSpike23]

define ram air.... the speed of a vehicle where air is actually forced into the intake/engine faster than which it can draw on its own?

most "ram air" intakes work off the basis of a shorter, smoother intake tract to allow smoother air flow to the engine.

similar to an exhaust swap, reducing restrictions to allow smoother and easier flow of air out of the engine.

[Halltech]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

define ram air.... the speed of a vehicle where air is actually forced into the intake/engine faster than which it can draw on its own?

most "ram air" intakes work off the basis of a shorter, smoother intake tract to allow smoother air flow to the engine.

similar to an exhaust swap, reducing restrictions to allow smoother and easier flow of air out of the engine.

Read my post. It is all there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram-air_intake

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Halltech

Read my post. It is all there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram-air_intake

it wasnt a serious question. I was just putting it out there as thats what most people think they are doing when they put a "ram air" intake on their car.