Electric Vehicles

[Wyzz Kydd]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmone...ic-trucks.html

A few snippets


'Electrification is a governmental and environmental initiative. It is not consumer driven,' said Joe McCabe, President and CEO of automotive consultancy AutoForecast Solutions.

'There are early adopters, and the early adopters have adopted,' said McCabe, suggesting that those adopters tended to be richer city-dwellers, sometimes dubbed 'urban cowboys'.

But he said more typical mass market consumers are held back by cost and 'range anxiety' - fears they can travel far enough in an electric truck without needing to find somewhere to charge.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

EV batteries are actually very recyclable, as well as remanufacturable.
https://li-cycle.com/
https://www.lithiontechnologies.com
https://www.redwoodmaterials.com

Electric Vehicle Battery Recycling

In 2020, approximately 550,000 EV batteries reached the end of their lives, and it is estimated that approximately 150 million more batteries will be generated by 2035. The global recycling rate of electric vehicle batteries is currently approximately 5%.[2] The remainder are either stockpiled, for recycling or reuse at a later date, or disposed of in landfill.

Exploring the Recycling Rates of Electric Vehicle Batteries

While there is no definitive global figure for the recycling rate of EV batteries, estimates suggest that the current recycling rate is relatively low. According to a report by the International Energy Agency (IEA), only about 5% of lithium-ion batteries, which are commonly used in EVs, are recycled worldwide. This low recycling rate can be attributed to several factors, including the lack of proper infrastructure and standardized recycling processes.

It's the internet... You can always find articles to support whatever side of any topic you want to talk about.

[Capricio]

If recycling lithium batteries was profitable, it'd be happening en masse, all on it's own. When the raw material price reaches a high enough point to make to make it profitable, we probably won't care about buying EVs, anyways. Don't worry, the goverment will pass another "anti-inflation" bill and and we'll get some new green solyndra style recycling start ups, for a while.

FWIW, some recycled materials are never as good as raw materials. They get oxidized, contaminated, mis-handled during disposal, whatever. I remember in an old job, running cereal boxes made from recycled cardboard through a QA metal detection system. There were so many false positives for metal, not from the food, but from the packaging, people putting cardboard and paper in the recycle bins with paper clips, staples, etc. It just wasn't worth the hassle/expense to get a clean recycled product. There were never any issues running product made from raw materials.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I won't go the EV route unless I literally have money to burn because I just don't think it's practical or good for the environment.

Im sorry, filling your car up at home for 10% of ICE cost and zero tailpipe emissions isnt practical or good for the environment? Are we in Reverso world or something?

Toyota claim they are close to production of the first solid state EV battery - 745 mile range on a 10 minute charge, thats more than comparable with ICE cars ......... but it still only costs 10% as much to fill up.
Wheres that tech going to have got to in 5 years time?

[el ess A]

Originally Posted by docwra

Toyota claim they are close to production of the first solid state EV battery - 745 mile range on a 10 minute charge, thats more than comparable with ICE cars ......... but it still only costs 10% as much to fill up.
Wheres that tech going to have got to in 5 years time?

Bigger question should be where's electricity prices going to be in 5 years' time? I'm thinking that 10% is going to be a much larger percentage, unless price manipulation comes into play. To which I wouldn't put it past any of the ones who call the shots.

[Windycity]

Originally Posted by el ess A

Bigger question should be where's electricity prices going to be in 5 years' time? I'm thinking that 10% is going to be a much larger percentage, unless price manipulation comes into play. To which I wouldn't put it past any of the ones who call the shots.

Most power companies are regulated in the us and simply can’t raise the kilowatt price at will whenever they feel like it


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[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by docwra

Im sorry, filling your car up at home for 10% of ICE cost and zero tailpipe emissions isnt practical or good for the environment? Are we in Reverso world or something?

Toyota claim they are close to production of the first solid state EV battery - 745 mile range on a 10 minute charge, thats more than comparable with ICE cars ......... but it still only costs 10% as much to fill up.
Wheres that tech going to have got to in 5 years time?

First, good luck finding chargers as easily as a gas station. Secondly, charging in many places is almost as expensive as gas stations in some regard. Thirdly, trying to have an EV and not own a home is unpractical realistically. Last, but not least, aside from Rivian and Tesla, I've yet to see a decent sized EV worth a crap.

I'm 6'3" and due to my shoe size, I'm roughly 6'8" sitting in a car. Trying to sit in these tin can EV cars is a no go...

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Windycity

Most power companies are regulated in the us and simply can’t raise the kilowatt price at will whenever they feel like it.

So you are trying to tell me that if xyz company decides to put up new charging stations... they can't get the charging stations built and then charge you whatever they feel like? What regulations are stopping the charging stations from charging what they want?

Maybe the electric company is regulated and can't simply up the cost of the service to the charging station whenever they feel like it, but that doesn't mean the charging station can't up the prices of what they are charging the person with the EV... Right?

[Windycity]

Originally Posted by jamala00

So you are trying to tell me that if xyz company decides to put up new charging stations... they can't get the charging stations built and then charge you whatever they feel like? What regulations are stopping the charging stations from charging what they want?

Maybe the electric company is regulated and can't simply up the cost of the service to the charging station whenever they feel like it, but that doesn't mean the charging station can't up the prices of what they are charging the person with the EV... Right?

My comment was mainly focused on homeowners charging at home

Charging stations can up their prices to whatever they want but the actual price for electricity is set pre kilowatt hour from the power company


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[jamala00]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

First, good luck finding chargers as easily as a gas station. Secondly, charging in many places is almost as expensive as gas stations in some regard. Thirdly, trying to have an EV and not own a home is unpractical realistically. Last, but not least, aside from Rivian and Tesla, I've yet to see a decent sized EV worth a crap..

Not to mention... how many people are in my boat, everyone in my neighborhood is. If I bought an EV and wanted to charge it at home.

1) I'd have to get the main service to my home upgraded.
2) I'd have to dig up the electric cable that goes from my house to my detatched garage to upgrade it.
3) I'd have to upgrade the subpanel in my garage
4) I'd have to rip down the drywall in my garage to run a wire to where I'd need to install the Level II Charger
5) Then I'd have to repair the drywall, the yard, etc...

That is all on top of buying the EV... Why on earth would I do any of that? What would the cost of all that be? Thousands...!

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Windycity

My comment was mainly focused on homeowners charging at home

Charging stations can up their prices to whatever they want but the actual price for electricity is set pre kilowatt hour from the power company

If you truly don't believe that whatever regulations would need to be changed to pass on the cost to the consumer to upgrade the power grid so that charging vehicles (if EVs become the main auto type) at home or whatever can be done... Well... I think that is simply being a bit naive.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Windycity

Most power companies are regulated in the us and simply can’t raise the kilowatt price at will whenever they feel like it


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You're an idealist aren't you?

Two words are very applicable in this case: regulatory capture

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

You're an idealist aren't you?

Two words are very applicable in this case: regulatory capture

No pro EV person ever wants to talk about what the charges will be to charge your EV at home or on the road "if/when" EV's become the main auto source. All they ever want to do is say... "I can charge my EV 10x's cheaper now".

If it happens... once that tipping point of EVs to ICE happen and the tax revenue drops because people are not buying gas... Your charges to add those electrons into your EV battery are going to skyrocket. Right now, there are still enough people buying gas and feeding the state/fed taxes.... The fed or state are not just going to wash their hands of all the tax revenue.

It's no different then what the cable companies and streaming services did.

Before everyone got their TV and Internet service from the cable company. Then streaming services came along. Once the streaming services caught on, they jacked the prices of their services. Once the cable companies lost enough cable subscribers they jacked the price of their internet service. It's the same thing. If the state and fed lose tax revenue from enough people buying EVs, they will make up the revenue in other ways.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Windycity

Most power companies are regulated in the us and simply can’t raise the kilowatt price at will whenever they feel like it

True.

But what happens, here at least, is the power companies go whining to the Public Service Commission who then approve "adjustments". So the rate is the same but other fees are piled on.

Our "fuel adjustment charge" (from when natural gas went to $10) is as much as the kW usage charge. Natural gas isn't $10 anymore, but the charge remains. Then we pay another charge, which will also probably never go away, for hurricane damage repair.

So if/when EV demand starts to strain the infrastructure it is a sure bet that everyone's rates will be "adjusted" accordingly.