02-27-2024, 08:50 PM | #1681 | |
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Well, so much for free trade agreements. Now its a race to the bottom, or upping the antes with which government can find the perfect balance of tariffs and subsidies, ours or China's. And hard pass on a used EV that has lost half it's value in 19 months. If I ever got one, it'd have to be new with a warranty. Why do you suppose new EVs tank so quickly in value? How much do you think the CCP has to subsidize BYD to sell at those prices and take over the global market? Probably less than $7500US/each. GM going all in competing against the CCP, which controls 80% of their supply chain was kind of stupid. It's going to be fun to watch them incrementally walk their bold 2035 statements back and try to make it sound like 100% EV was never their plan the whole time. Good luck selling us $40k+ Equinox skateboards and telling us what a value it is, when europe is getting $14k BYD cars that are getting pretty good reviews. Subsidies and tariffs will only last for so long. (looking at you, ethanol). I want the best for American manufacturing, the American taxpayer, and the American consumer, with as little government manipulation as possible. Agenda driven policies are what got us here, though, at taxpayer expense, with little regard consumer demand. Last edited by Capricio; 02-28-2024 at 08:45 AM. |
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02-28-2024, 10:36 AM | #1682 |
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Actually, it's Americans who got us here and the agenda-driven policies were what US shoppers wanted. Cheap crap, cheap TV's, cheap and disposable everything, because price.
Listen to buzz about EV's in America. Teslas are too expensive. "I want a $15k EV commuter". "EV's are an evil ____ agenda". And so Americans have dragged their feet, kicked, screamed, whined, and resisted adopting EV's the whole way, letting China eat our lunch. Meanwhile, Teslas hold 5 out of 6 of the top positions in the US-Made vehicles index. The only semblance of a so-called "American" auto manufacturer appears in spot #19 with the Chevrolet Corvette. Rest assured if/when BYD starts selling cheap EV's here, they will sell. Because price over principle, and we let it happen. |
02-28-2024, 11:00 AM | #1683 | |
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The point is to protect US jobs and industry from what is undoubtedly to come from low priced Chinese EV cars and content.
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02-28-2024, 11:49 AM | #1684 |
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For how long, and what cost to taxpayers and consumers? Competing in the EV arena was driven by policy and regulation, not consumer demand, and now policy has to sustain it on life support, to postpone a catastrophe for the big 3. How many years out is an American version of a BYD Dolphin? Nevermind, American OEMs are obsessed with low volume/high margin platforms in the age of 8% interest rates.
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02-28-2024, 12:07 PM | #1685 |
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I'm good with cripplingly high tariffs and domestic vehicle deregulation. Mexico is off my buying list, Musk & Silicon Valley too.
China and Western Europe can have each other and fight over the Middle East. |
02-28-2024, 12:42 PM | #1686 |
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02-28-2024, 12:49 PM | #1687 | |
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And assuming your premise does make sense, what should we have done differently? |
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02-28-2024, 01:19 PM | #1688 | |
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China isn't going anywhere and suggesting bombing a region because of consumer sentiment is absurd. |
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02-28-2024, 01:42 PM | #1689 | |
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With regards to EV's, it would have started back in the mid-90's and instead of GM killing the electric car, they'd be 30 years ahead creating the next Tesla, and well ahead of China. A Tesla is the most American car you can buy right now. The majority are built here, sourced here, assembled here, using American and North American labor, and the more people buy, the cheaper they become. Note that we're in a period of record US oil production, which is great, but alternative energy further increases any dependence on foreign oil, and it creates massive amounts of good jobs here in the US. You want American workers? Battery tech will change but the US has massive lithium deposits. The EPA superfund site that is the Salton Sea in Southern California is about to get transformed into a literal gold mine (except, lithium). F the earth, reducing emissions is great and there is real benefit. Let's start putting shovels in hands--all those coal miners out of a job have a job again. Had the EV seen earlier interest and investment, we'd be farther ahead on that game too, but instead we've pissed all over the idea of EV's for the most part when we had an opportunity to be simply, the best. |
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02-28-2024, 02:08 PM | #1690 | |
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02-28-2024, 03:00 PM | #1691 | |
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02-28-2024, 03:12 PM | #1692 |
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Yes, this tired talking point that technically zero tailpipe emissions suspense dates, EPA mileage standards of "divide by zero" miles/gallon, are not "EV mandates". Most of us see the abolishment of ICE as the same thing.
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02-28-2024, 03:20 PM | #1693 | |
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"Abolishment of ICE" is a tired talking point that is not only untrue, but it's meant to fear-monger. Most states aren't considering adopting any kind of date for stop-sale of ICV's, nor are all states adopting stricter CARB standards. |
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02-28-2024, 04:07 PM | #1694 | |
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To meet the upcoming standards, automakers will need to add Gas Particulate Filters, either high pressure direct injection or dual port + DI injection, probably some advanced form of EGR, and several other technologies. These are things they know how to do, and that’s why EPA and NHTSA have no problem pushing for the new standards. But they are costly and the OEMs know that they cannot price for them. So many of them have decided to only maintain the engine families they can continue with minimal investment and use EV volume to balance the rest of the fleet. As an example, GM’s engine offerings have been pretty much dialed back to just the Small Block V8 and CCS 2.7L for trucks and the CCS 1.5L, 2.0L and 2.5L engines for everything else. Because engines like the HFV6 require too much investment to clean up to meet the new standards.
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