Electric Vehicles

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by detamble13

Model 3 and Y have just introduced a "Standard" trim level which reduces content and price. Not sure if this moves the needle but the Model Y sells pretty well so offering a base model should only help.

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Looks like it is 40K, not bad

And the very next day GM announced the return of the Chevrolet Bolt. It comes in at $28,995 and is in some ways better equipped than the stripped down Model Y.

https://insideevs.com/news/775172/20...rice-revealed/

[snizzle]

I'm confused. Is this another MCE with cheaper batteries and an updated interior? And now they're saying this is a limited run. I don't get it. Is that because they expected to still get $7,500 on the hood from taxpayers? Next gen incoming?

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

And the very next day GM announced the return of the Chevrolet Bolt. It comes in at $28,995 and is in some ways better equipped than the stripped down Model Y.

https://insideevs.com/news/775172/20...rice-revealed/

Isn't the Bolt way smaller? Would people be cross shopping these?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

I'm confused. Is this another MCE with cheaper batteries and an updated interior? And now they're saying this is a limited run. I don't get it. Is that because they expected to still get $7,500 on the hood from taxpayers? Next gen incoming?

That's an interesting question. It's probably beyond an MCE if for no other reason than that the propulsion system is different and more than 50% of the parts are changed (according to GM). But looking at the 2023 Bolt and the 2027 Bolt side by side...it's hard to track visual differences.

But, the motor is different, the battery is different, the user interface is different, the interior appointments are different. The charging system is different (thank gawd) and it's an all around better car.

My thoughts on "limited run"... I wasn't at the conference but one of my work colleagues was. Pretty much everyone at the event did a head tilt but all the questions on the matter were artfully deflected.

Our forecast shows a vehicle coming in around 2029 that would be more impactful than the Bolt and have more propulsion system options (2 motor / AWD, multiple battery sizes). What we question is if that would replace Bolt or if Bolt would stay in place and the new product slot in between Bolt and Equinox EV sorta like Trax is FWD only and Trailblazer is a sportier FWD / AWD offering on the same platform. If they are planning to drop Bolt when the new vehicle comes in that would go a long way towards explaining why no real sheet metal changes were made. Presses and dies are expensive and if you aren't going to make a sufficient number of vehicles (hundreds of thousands) to recover the cost, why bother.

As for the pricing, given that the batteries are initially coming from China I doubt there was any expectation of seeing the $7,500 incentive. Question 1 (for qualification) is "Is the vehicle assembled in North America? Question 2 is "Is the battery assembled in the US?" and Question 3 is "Where do the battery materials and minerals come from?" Hard fail.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Isn't the Bolt way smaller? Would people be cross shopping these?

EV world is in a weird place right now in that vehicles compete across segment. A lot of people in market for something like a Bolt, some of whom may have even been replacing a Bolt, bought Model 3 / Model Y / Ioniq 5 because nothing affordable existed in their preferred size range. Sure, there's Kona EV and last generation Leaf, but those vehicles had / have some serious shortcomings when compared with Bolt and especially any of the vehicles I just mentioned. So buyers just bit the bullet and moved up-market. Equinox EV did a lot to capture that market too, but oddly, EQEV is actually larger than Model Y. I say oddly because we have a Model Y and an EQEV and to my eye the Model Y looks bigger, but on every measurable dimension (length, height, maybe not width) EQEV is slightly larger. I would actually consider Blazer EV a better direct competitor to Model Y.

Tesla-nation spent months speculating about what the $30k entry level would be. Some were saying Model 2. Some were sizing a smaller version of Model Y based on the Cybercab. At the end of the day, in true Tesla fashion, $30k = $40k. So just as some of the early buyers bit the bullet and moved up the price ladder to a Model 3 or Model Y, some who are more price sensitive and also somewhat sour about Tesla's $10k fudge factor will likely say "for $10k I can go for the smaller car".

If you take a really critical look at it, a couple months ago you could get a Model Y for about $43 - 44k then the incentive would bring it down to about $37k. And you'd have the full lighter, the clear tinted panoramic roof, physical power seat controls, power folding mirrors, etc, etc.

Now for $40k you can get the Standard Model Y without any of that. Tesla has essentially demonstrated, though unintentionally, here's what you lose because the incentives went away.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

...
Our forecast shows a vehicle coming in around 2029 that would be more impactful than the Bolt and have more propulsion system options (2 motor / AWD, multiple battery sizes). ...

Our forecast also shows a Chevrolet vehicle coming out of Lansing Grand River...with a 6.6L V8...with a manual transmission...nameplate undetermined...with 4 doors.

That is LITERALLY all I am willing to say on the topic. I won't be answering any questions. What I said is what I said.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Our forecast also shows a Chevrolet vehicle coming out of Lansing Grand River...with a 6.6L V8...with a manual transmission...nameplate undetermined...with 4 doors.

That is LITERALLY all I am willing to say on the topic. I won't be answering any questions. What I said is what I said.

Only horrible human beings toy with others emotions.

Like Stevie Nicks and Tom Perty said, stop draggin my heart around.

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Our forecast also shows a Chevrolet vehicle coming out of Lansing Grand River...with a 6.6L V8...with a manual transmission...nameplate undetermined...with 4 doors.

Hot damn. I immediately think heavy duty truck but the manual transmission makes me pause. Could still be a truck with a manual option I guess. But nameplate undetermined makes me wonder if it's a four door car/cuv. Anything with that engine and a manual is interesting.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Only horrible human beings toy with others emotions.

Like Stevie Nicks and Tom Perty said, stop draggin my heart around.

My band actually does that song.

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by detamble13

Hot damn. I immediately think heavy duty truck but the manual transmission makes me pause. Could still be a truck with a manual option I guess. But nameplate undetermined makes me wonder if it's a four door car/cuv. Anything with that engine and a manual is interesting.

LGR produces the Alpha chassis Caddys. Possibly another Alpha variant for Chevrolet?????

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

My band actually does that song.

Yeah it’s always a good choice for cover/bar bands.

I love playing Handle With Care and Won’t Back Down.

[snizzle]

Well, remember, GM has the VSS-R platform successor to Alpha. What has it been used for thus far? The Cadillac CT6, a RWD Sedan that at one point had a V8. Maybe the suits at GM would only approve another Camaro if it was more practical (4 doors) and shared across brands (Cadillac, CT4/5+). Rumor has it "they" have tried and failed multiple times at pitching another coupe. If this is the next gen V8 shared with next gen full size twins, then we can expect it to be electrified. Martinjlm dropped a bomb on us, oh the possibilities

[KMPrenger]

A bomb indeed. lol 6.6L V8?

If this is the current 6.6 used in HD Trucks / Vans, then I don't see this being a performance sedan or anything of the sort, when there is a new generation of V8s coming next year, likely with a new performance variant that will be used in the Corvette. But being produced at Lansing seems to nix the idea that this will be a truck or work vehicle.

(Edit: I'm slow, but I did just see that there is a newer updated 6.6 V8 with 523HP available from GM performance. I have a hard time seeing this making it into a production vehicle)

If this is some new 6.6l V8, well then who knows? I am sort of expecting either updated versions of the 5.3 and 6.2 again, but I'm also optimistic that we could see something more out of left field this time around. Perhaps some sort of a low displacement forced induction V8 engine as the range topper engine. Also, I'm expecting to see a hybrid version at some point in the next gen of full size trucks, but maybe not right at launch?

If GM goes "insane" and drops a V8 sedan on us again, or maybe a sporty V8 CUV/SUV that could be pretty dang awesome. I just don't see them dropping serious money to get back into the "dead" sedan game again though.

Camaro replacement with 4 doors? Nah. Then again, Ford and Stellantis both changed up their formulas with the Mustang and Challenger lately so it's possible.

Corvette SUV? Hrrmm...I can see that.

[olrocker]

I’m just floored at the possibility of a manual transmission.

A V8 with a manual? I don’t care how many doors it has: