TR-6060: Clutch master/slave issues

[TheBrightSide]

Okay, so I’m probably posting another repetitive thread, but… I’m at my WITS END!!!!

I’m on my FOURTH clutch master cylinder and the stock clutch slave cylinder. Yes, I would’ve replaced the clutch slave, but such is life, and I can’t afford it…. I’ve had so many (oh, so many) hydraulic clutch failures; and all have been super WEIRD. I’ve even opened like 2 prior failed clutch master cylinders (supposedly), and almost nothing seemed off at all, besides maybe some remnants of silicone lubricant from the factory on the CMC’s (usually newer ones I’ve installed and had fail within months!).

So, my clutch hydraulic failures are not even from getting the car/trans super hot and then having issues with hydraulic pressure there. Like, right now, I just cracked the bleed valve on the slave and BARELY anything came out. You’d expect it to be pressurized, right?? My clutch pedal was working and had a tiny bit of play at the top (~2-3 mm), and I’ve been very paranoid but thought it was normal.

Then, I go to check the pedal and it’s fully dead, so then I think to myself, that means I should’ve had tons of clutch fluid come out, and I’d need to maybe pump it to actually get the rest of the fluid/pressure out — nope. Thing is DEAD. I have no idea what to do, and I’m probably gonna order ANOTHER clutch master and install that.

For the LOVE OF GOD, I do NOT know what is causing these issues… I have installed a remote clutch master cylinder/fluid reservoir, a stainless steel braided brake line, and I even heat wrapped the clutch line and run super good brake fluid in the system! I even siphon out and cycle in new fluid every 5-6 months for peace of mine (“Ranger” method). I’ve had people today tell me it might be a blockage….

I don’t even know where to start with looking for a blockage… I don’t wanna remove the bleed valve on the slave, cause then I most likely won’t be able to get it back in…. At least not without probably wanting to blow up the car or sell it LOL

[fz4k98]

What are the steps for used when doing a bleed? I noticed it is easy to reintroduce air into the system if it is not done correctly. I have a remote bleed line on mine and perform bleeds by myself.

My steps ...
Make sure reservoir is full
place cover back on reservoir
Pump pedal several times and hold to floor while cracking bleed open slightly
hold pedal to floor and close bleed
repeat process until i have good fluid flow and good pedal.

I ran into issues when i let reservoir go to low and also by not holding pedal to floor before closing valve.
I also noticed it works better by just cracking bleed valve to ensure slow pressure release and also to close valve just before it stops flowing fluid, not after it stops flowing fluid.

[TheBrightSide]

Originally Posted by fz4k98

What are the steps for used when doing a bleed? I noticed it is easy to reintroduce air into the system if it is not done correctly. I have a remote bleed line on mine and perform bleeds by myself.

My steps ...
Make sure reservoir is full
place cover back on reservoir
Pump pedal several times and hold to floor while cracking bleed open slightly
hold pedal to floor and close bleed
repeat process until i have good fluid flow and good pedal.

I ran into issues when i let reservoir go to low and also by not holding pedal to floor before closing valve.
I also noticed it works better by just cracking bleed valve to ensure slow pressure release and also to close valve just before it stops flowing fluid, not after it stops flowing fluid.

Forgot to update this post... My clutch slave cylinder is toast. I guess it decided to bite the dust yesterday, or right as I somehow un-did the bleeder valve. What luck, huh? I even used my friend's boroscope camera, with a light, to go inside of the bell housing and inspect things. Turns out that there with a teeny bit of brake fluid seeping out of the green housing and the black-colored seal thing.

Not only that, but I removed the bleeder valve entirely by hand (was confident I could thread it back in), and used the camera to see how much clutch/brake fluid was coming out. Barely any fluid was being sent down, even though the clutch master cylinder seemed to be working totally fine this time (unlike other times).

The amount of fluid that was being sent out of the slave cylinder was barely enough to even flow through the bleeder valve, even when I hooked up a hand vacuum pump to it. I even filmed a video of my remote clutch fluid/master cylinder reservoir, to see if the bore was traveling; and indeed, there was a decent amount of clutch fluid traveling, but obviously not as much as normal.

I typically bleed all by myself, with no fancy tools; usually just a block of wood in between the clutch pedal and driver seat, and a brake bleeder bottle and hose (to catch fluid from the bleed valve). I usually don't even bother bench bleeding either, as I typically just leave the bleed valve open (same on brake calipers/lines), and then I pump the pedal until all fluid flows freely and evenly.

Guess I'm gonna check to see what needs to be taken off, before the trans gets dropped. It's been 10+ years since I've dropped a T-56 on a Pontiac GTO or C5 Corvette, so there's a few differences with this 5th gen Camaro SS. I plan I on getting a billet release bearing support, as well as a remote clutch bleed line. Aside from that, I'm gonna get either an OEM GM clutch slave cylinder, or at least an FTE or Luk brand one. Not sure if I trust Exedy, but it's up there with Luk and FTE, GM, Sachs.

[TheBrightSide]

And for others who've been wondering about why I've been going through so many damned clutch master cylinders... I wouldn't have a clue either. After my 3rd one, I figured it was either related to the clutch slave cylinder, or something in the CMC itself. But obviously after opening up the 3rd CMC when installing my new 4th one, I noticed nothing unusual, except for remnants of silicone lubricant (which they place on the CMC from the factory).

In the past, when my clutch pedal would randomly die, I would check the clutch fluid reservoir, to see that there was barely any bore travel (can see lots of fluid moving in reservoir). Having a remote clutch fluid reservoir (Tick Pontiac GTO kit) seriously helps in diagnosing these issues, since you would probably not see any of this happening (significantly), if still hooked up to the factory brake master cylinder fluid reservoir.

I typically also cycle in new clutch/brake fluid every 4-6 months, even when my fluid isn't super dark (just a bit dark from gradual use/heat). When my brand new clutch master cylinder was starting to die like almost twice, I realized it was odd, and this just confirms my suspicions... God, I really hate the nature of these manual transmissions and am almost wishing I got the automatic version (for a daily driver).