Electric Vehicles

[90503]

Good stuff!^^^^

So, in the case of regular hybrids (such as the Rav4, no plug in)...It also has two drivetrains? But a smaller battery that reduces weight, cost and ev only range? Not really much different than the PHEVs, other than battery size??
Also from what I can tell, the hybrid runs battery and ICE at the same time...Series?...Parallel? PHEVs only run on one or the other, not combined?

Still somewhat confused on the difference between PHEV and Hybrid....Thanks.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Good stuff!^^^^

So, in the case of regular hybrids (such as the Rav4, no plug in)...It also has two drivetrains? But a smaller battery that reduces weight, cost and ev only range? Not really much different than the PHEVs, other than battery size??
Also from what I can tell, the hybrid runs battery and ICE at the same time...Series?...Parallel? PHEVs only run on one or the other, not combined?

Still somewhat confused on the difference between PHEV and Hybrid....Thanks.

No. One powertrain that is ICE focused. The electric motor(s) act on the transmission to move the car when the engine is off. CVT / EVT works best for this because you don't have to program for shift logic, but there are a lot of P2 designs where the electric motor essentially replaces or attaches to the torque converter. Usually different batteries and motors when going from a HEV to a PHEV.

Typical HEV battery size is 1.6 - 2.2 kWh. Can usually only operate engine off at very low speeds...30 mph and lower.

Typical PHEV battery size is 12 - 25 kWh. Good for about 20 - 50 electric driven miles. Some are regulated to 55 - 70 mph top speed.

Volt battery size 18.1 kWh. 53 electric driven miles. Full vehicle speed range (99 mph electronically regulated).

Second gen EREV expect to see 60 - 90 kWh batteries. 200+ mile range unloaded. Full speed range capable.

Typical(?) EV battery size 60 - 200 kWh.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

No. One powertrain that is ICE focused. The electric motor(s) act on the transmission to move the car when the engine is off. CVT / EVT works best for this because you don't have to program for shift logic, but there are a lot of P2 designs where the electric motor essentially replaces or attaches to the torque converter. Usually different batteries and motors when going from a HEV to a PHEV.

Typical HEV battery size is 1.6 - 2.2 kWh. Can usually only operate engine off at very low speeds...30 mph and lower.

Typical PHEV battery size is 12 - 25 kWh. Good for about 20 - 50 electric driven miles. Some are regulated to 55 - 70 mph top speed.

Volt battery size 18.1 kWh. 53 electric driven miles. Full vehicle speed range (99 mph electronically regulated).

Second gen EREV expect to see 60 - 90 kWh batteries. 200+ mile range unloaded. Full speed range capable.

Typical(?) EV battery size 60 - 200 kWh.

Very helpful, thanks.

[FarmerFran]

The plot thickens!!!

Interesting numbers, units in January and now February

Mach E
January
2025 - 3529
2026 - 1040

Mustang
2025 - 2399
2026 - 3609

February

Mach E
2025 - 3312
2026 - 1502

Mustang
2025 - 2792
2026 - 4313

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

No. One powertrain that is ICE focused. The electric motor(s) act on the transmission to move the car when the engine is off. CVT / EVT works best for this because you don't have to program for shift logic, but there are a lot of P2 designs where the electric motor essentially replaces or attaches to the torque converter. Usually different batteries and motors when going from a HEV to a PHEV.

Typical HEV battery size is 1.6 - 2.2 kWh. Can usually only operate engine off at very low speeds...30 mph and lower.

Typical PHEV battery size is 12 - 25 kWh. Good for about 20 - 50 electric driven miles. Some are regulated to 55 - 70 mph top speed.

Volt battery size 18.1 kWh. 53 electric driven miles. Full vehicle speed range (99 mph electronically regulated).

Second gen EREV expect to see 60 - 90 kWh batteries. 200+ mile range unloaded. Full speed range capable.

Typical(?) EV battery size 60 - 200 kWh.

With my '24 Corolla HEV AWD, it's mostly about load and throttle input and not MPH. If the load is low enough it will run in EV at higher speeds, albiet not for long.

[Martinjlm]

I do not know how to share just a clip of this long YouTube video, so bear with me.

If you fast forward to an hour and 20 minutes in the interviewer asks Bob Lutz what he would drive if he wasn't being loyal to the automakers he worked for. Without hesitation he replied "Lucid Air". I did NOT expect that but I'm not totally surprised.

https://youtu.be/WraD3FHTVVI

If you drop in a little earlier, 1:18-ish, you can hear what he says about Cybertruck. I won't quote it. That would dilute the experience of hearing it direct from Maximum Bob.

[Realist]

Personally I never understood why Lutz was/is hailed in the AutoWorld. To me just another fatcat that became wealthy all the while the USA auto industry started tanking and continued, just my opinion of course. Executive roles many others could have filled with similar outcomes.

Performance of the Air is impressive but the front and rear appearance fall short in my eyes. I would also worry about issues after warranty expires which fatcats don’t have to be concerned with.

As far as the Cyber truck, they definitely should admit failure and redesign the body toward a more normal appearing full size SUV/pickup body.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Realist

Personally I never understood why Lutz was/is hailed in the AutoWorld. To me just another fatcat that became wealthy all the while the USA auto industry started tanking and continued, just my opinion of course. Executive roles many others could have filled with similar outcomes.

Performance of the Air is impressive but the front and rear appearance fall short in my eyes. I would also worry about issues after warranty expires which fatcats don’t have to be concerned with.

As far as the Cyber truck, they definitely should admit failure and redesign the body toward a more normal appearing full size SUV/pickup body.

C'mon now, we wouldn't want to piss off Elon's kid, whom he gives credit for designing it.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Realist

Personally I never understood why Lutz was/is hailed in the AutoWorld. To me just another fatcat that became wealthy all the while the USA auto industry started tanking and continued, just my opinion of course. Executive roles many others could have filled with similar outcomes.

Bob Lutz was responsible for a number of iconic vehicles. While working for GM in Europe he revived the Opel brand. While at BMW he was responsible for bringing to market some of the more iconic early performance models, like the 2002 Turbo and for the establishment of the 3 / 5 / 7 Series sizing and naming.

At Ford he was the force behind the original Explorer (thumbs up) and bringing the Merkur XR4Ti to the US (not exactly a thumbs up).

At Chrysler he was almost single-handedly responsible for the Viper (yay), Prowler (booo), the big rig look on Ram pickups, introduction of LH sedans, and Grand Cherokee.

Back at GM, this time in North America, he was responsible for bringing forth Pontiac Solstice / Saturn Skyy (one of the first things he did when he got there), bringing back Pontiac GTO / G8 / Chevy SS and Camaro. Without Lutz there would NOT have been a 5th or 6th gen Camaro. Period. He also loosened the reins on the Corvette team and let them free-wheel more than any other product team except maybe Full Size Truck (aka cash register), and brought back V-Series for Cadillac. Probably most importantly, he was responsible for changing the quality culture of the company. I saw firsthand several times where he would stop a program dead in its tracks to fix perceptual quality issues. Interiors got redesigned. Material choices were changed. Suppliers were changed. Even if it delayed a product launch by a model year. That was NEVER done before in the midst of product execution. Once the ball was rolling you got what you got <cough> Aztek<cough>.

Originally Posted by Realist

Performance of the Air is impressive but the front and rear appearance fall short in my eyes. I would also worry about issues after warranty expires which fatcats don’t have to be concerned with.

Can't really argue with you there. It has had to grow on me. Maybe working in the same building with their Michigan office and seeing a dozen or so of them everyday in the parking deck has allowed it to grow on me. Even if it hadn't grown on me, the car does so many things right (super comfortable ride, ridiculously fast, longest range available, most efficient EV available, best aero, one of the fastest charging EVs available, more roomy than an S-Class) that I can forgive it for not being drop dead gorgeous.

[olrocker]

This man is a bleeping legend. He’s one of my personal heroes whom I’d really consider donating a LOT of money to a charity if his choice just to spend a couple hours listening to his stories and thoughts on cars.

In some ways (definitely not ALL of course) he’s similar to John DeLorean.

It’s a bleeping shame he was never elected CEO of GM and didn’t have a much longer stint at the company. He was a proponent of keeping Pontiac after the ‘08 bankruptcy and really reviving the division to what it was.

[cdb95z28]

Lutz ain't no fat cat. Car guy to the core. Marine Corps aviator. Called global warming a crock of shit. As mentioned, his hands are all over a bunch of great vehicles.

[FarmerFran]

Oooops....

Baby locked in Antioch family's General Motor's Cadillac electric vehicle after sudden 'faulty battery' shuts car down | abc7news.com https://abc7news.com/post/baby-locke...down/18700840/

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Oooops....

Baby locked in Antioch family's General Motor's Cadillac electric vehicle after sudden 'faulty battery' shuts car down | abc7news.com https://abc7news.com/post/baby-locke...down/18700840/

When I took delivery of the Equinox EV, one of the first things the dealer wanted to show me was how to access the emergency key and where under the tailgate to insert it in the event a battery failure caused the handles to not extend. Same hidden key setup as Camaro except for the location of the keyhole. Surprised Cadillac service couldn't quickly explain that over the phone.

When we took delivery of the Model Y, one of the first things the delivery specialist showed us was how to open the doors in the event of disrupted 12V power that would render the electric door engagement inoperable. I must say I would have never figured out the way to open the rear doors without that tutorial. On the flip side, that's for getting OUT. Not sure I would know how to get IN if there was a power interrupt. Other than the tried-and-true "apply brick to window of choice" method.

For the Lucid, getting out is easy. The same mechanism that triggers the electronic door release serves as the physical door release by pulling it further. But again, getting IN would (to my knowledge) require the brick-to-window method.

[snizzle]

We don't need electronic doors/handles just as we don't need to surf the touchscreen to move the air vents. Don't overthink this stuff.