Transmission output shaft

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

guys...so, to lessen the chance of breaking the output shaft, are we supposed to hit the button twice to turn stab and trac controls off or hold the button down to turn EVERYTHING off? and do we keep them off ALL the time or just when launching hard?

Some people have said that turning EVERYTHING off will help protect it when launching hard. Noone has recommended doing this in normal driving. They are there to protect you (and I know they have saved my ass a couple times). The problem is mine broke before LC really came into play. If I would've launched at 4200RPM with everything off, the results would've been the same.

Either way, LC was designed for this car. It's not an aftermarket hack, it should've been tested thoroughly and proven safe. There is no reason we should not be able to use it.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by camaro5

This thread has been mostly respectful and reasonable. This issue is a simple one.

The M6 output shafts are breaking enough that we have seen at least 20 of them posted here.

How many broke where people don't post on the Internet?

This is another issue that I've been looking at as well

Originally Posted by 3 SS's

And I am certainly not asking you to

I know you aren't, but I take it as my personal responsibility, not only because I'm a moderator here, but because I feel that we have the right to know whats going on with this car, in all situations, whether it be the output shaft issue, the brake weights, the battery cable, the front fascia cracking, all of it. I want to know, and I want you to know. I want to be able to provide you with the information that you want. You might not remember it, as I've changed my user title numerous times, but I've been known as the truth enforcer on here. because I do my damnedest to find out the info we need and ensure that everyone knows the truth, regardless of the subject.

Originally Posted by Supermans

Thanks for responding. I don't have time to write a full reply at the moment but will work on one later. I'm not too happy to hear we should run the car hard to see if it will break but if that is the case, I would want assurance from Gm my warranty won't be denied if it does. All the info you have given so far is very informative and info we didn't know. All of them are snapping at the same point which is interesting and shows it is a defect in the building process obviously with one of the machines the company is using. It makes sense if they use two or three different machines to harden the metal, that would explain why some are affected and others are not. With that said, it would be easy to determine how many are affected if you know the number of machines they are using in total.. Simply divide them up by the total number of Camaro's produced up until the date they discovered the issue and stopped using the faulty machine and you would know exactly how many Camaro's have the potential problem.

check with your dealer, if you havent already, all the possible scenarios you can think of with your car breaking to ensure that you and your dealer know what exactly is and isnt covered by your warranty.

now from the looks of it, they are breaking at the same point, I havent gotten a hold of one myself to see, I'm going off the pictures that our members have posted up. they are shearing off right at the same point in the cases that I've seen. the hardening process seems to be the main focal point of this.

Originally Posted by camaro5

I'm starting to wonder if this is about launch control and wheel hop alone.

Maybe there's no defective parts to report on. Maybe every M6 Camaro SS will break if you use launch control and/or encounter wheel hop.

And then you were abusing the car, so the warranty is void. Boy, this sounds familiar.

Is that why there's no inside answers?

Patiently waiting for info. Thanks.

this is not just wheel hop or launch control, however, these can exacerbate the problem. if you encounter wheel hop, more than likely your half shafts are going to break first (which has happened to some members already).

GM knows that we will beat the living piss out of these cars, and 99.99% of them are handling that beating. but that 0.01% that isnt is what we have to look at. its just not a simple fix.

Originally Posted by Supermans

If you are correct, then how are future models being fixed? I think it is a single machine out of perhaps 3 or 4 that made these shafts from the supplier and they simply got rid of or fixed the machine. (If they only had one machine performing the task and the problem lies with the metal itself via impurities etc, then there would be no way of knowing exactly how many are affected. However if a couple machines were used and the metal is all the same quality, then it would be easy to calculate how many Camaro's will have faulty parts that may fail under certain conditions like launch control or anything else causing wheel hop that could snap the faulty part. I do remember in one thread the replacement shaft was thicker.. If that is so, then are all of them being installed thicker? I guess what we would want to know is if the problem really is fixed and if so how?Or else camaro5's theory may be the most logical of all the theories.

I dont remember reading that. do you recall where that was posted? lmk.

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

Can someone please educate me on this? I may launch the car hard and do some spirited driving from time to time but I want to lessen the chance of breaking the shaft due to wheelhop, etc. So, so should I

• leave everything on (dont press the button at all)
• press the button 2 time (turn off Stability and Traction controls OFF)
• press and hold the button for 7 seconds (turns everything off)

right now, we arent sure what exactly is causing the breakage. I'm believing that it is with the composition of the shaft itself and a bad batch made its way into a set of cars. that being said, I personally turn off stability control and traction control in the vehicles I drive. why? because I'm paranoid... no, really its because I am driving the car. not the car partially driving itself. same thing with ABS on my 94Z, I yanked that out for two reasons, 1 reason was weight, and the second was because it nearly caused me to join a pileup on the highway. I wanted the car to slide and "lose" control. the car didnt want to. now, that is me. that is how I am when I drive, I prefer that the car does as little thinking as possible to try and drive itself.

I cant tell you the best way not to break the shaft. the best way I've seen to break it is to turn everything off and drop the hammer.

Originally Posted by Supermans

So what your saying is the cause of the breakage has only occurred during launching using launch control? If so, is there enough data from all the people who had this issue to compile exactly what stress the Camaro's not affected should handle vs the ones that have the faulty part? In other words, what would be the average of launches I must try and exactly what numbers are we talking about so there is a way to test this out for ourselves. I'll try to re-phrase it in another way.. Perhaps we should get a formula of what we can do with the Camaro under warranty that either A: breaks the shaft or B: does not break the shaft so Camaro is working normally.. Unless you are saying all Camaro's are susceptible to launch control causing this issue which camaro5 has theorized. Just let us know the facts and how we can go about testing this ourselves (I don't like to use the word breaking it) so we can have peace of mind since GM is not willing to do it for us. Thanks for your input and help with this at this point in time. Better late than never..

no, I'm saying that I dont like launch control (as well as torque management) because they can promote wheelhop.

If we can get a list of everyone who has broken their output shaft, what they were doing, what kind of road they were on, tires, rpms, speed of clutch engagement, etc, then we could formulate what you are asking.

Originally Posted by mtcwby

I talked with Al Oppenheiser, GM Chief Engineer (that's him in the pic below my screen name) at SEMA for quite awhile about the half shafts and output shafts. I assure you that GM is not taking this lightly. Al has lost alot of sleep over this issue and it is being taken care of. He loves his Camaro, he has over 30,000 miles on it.
The dealers were told to get the customers taken care of with these issues and get them back on the road in no more than 48 hrs. They are resolving the problem. So get off of their a$$es and quit worrying over something, that the odds are, doesn't effect you. Go and enjoy your car and if it breaks, it will be fixed. Isn't that what we have warantees for. If it doesn't break by the time your 100,000 mile warantee runs out, then rest assured it is good. There isn't a car out there that couldn't break a part, any part, at any time. You can be driving down the highway 30 minutes from now and have someone come across the line and total out your car, but does that make you leave it in the garage? NO. You still go enjoy your car, and make sure your insurance premiums are paid up. So, like the country song says...."Shut up and drive".

back on the road is one thing, back on the road in their car is another.

however, I do agree with you on the warranty part. the warranty is there to fix things in the event that your car breaks. I'm not saying that people shouldnt worry, but dont let that hinder you from driving the car the way you want to drive it.

Originally Posted by Supermans

I don't like your tone of voice. Al can speak to me if he wants directly about this issue. I am not going to calm down on this issue until we have a resolution. I'm glad dealers are able to get the cars fixed in under 48 hours and get them back to the owners. What re-enforcements were done to the car to make sure it doesn't break again under the same stress? From what I hear it is a thicker cam shaft however I don't know who to believe on this issue at this point. And you don't tell me to "shut up and drive", I have every right to be concerned and to want answers.. If you don't like me asking the questions and being tough on GM, then you're in the wrong forum..

it is our right as Americans to question anything and everything. Where are you hearing about a thicker shaft?

Originally Posted by CynAgain

Ok, let's not go off the deep end. I believe everyone has said their peace so let's keep it inline.

We are all on the same page. There is a problem and we want answers.

From what I've read here I don't believe I'm in danger driving the car should the output shaft fail. There is no indication I'll lose control of the vehicle when this happens either. It may prove inconvenient if it snaps, but that is the case with any failure.

Me personally, I will continue to drive with all the controls on. The car was designed to have those safety features and I will run it as such.

In addition, I was out playing with launch control this morning and again no problem despite some minor wheel hop.

Maybe my car is not affected ~ maybe it just hasn't happened yet.

What I do know is this forum has been the single best source for information on this car and that GM takes our feedback seriously.

If my car breaks, my dealer will know and this forum will know. Until then I wait.

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Although I was using launch control when mine snapped, there's no way this is caused by launch control. Mine didn't move far enough (read: at all) to get any wheel hop. I don't think the rear wheels turned at all. It just snapped right at the launch. And to those (including fbod in the past) saying "go launch it and if it doesn't break, you're fine". With all due respect, this is complete BS for several reasons. The first, you shouldn't have to grenade the entire transmission on a new car to find out that it, in fact, did have a problem. Secondly, mine broke after I had used LC and other hard launch techniques at least a dozen times. I had over 4300 miles on my car. I had even made 6 passes at the track before it broke (most with LC).

it is not caused by LC. I've never said that it was caused by LC, I said that LC and TM, and SC and TC can add to the problem of wheel hop. And the reason for saying that doesnt pertain to why the shafts are breaking. All these M6 owners who give A6 owners shit about "wanting to be more in touch with the car" and "really drive the car" then go and use LC are hypocrites, but thats a banter for another time. my comments about LC pertain to the issue of wheel hop, not to the issue of the output shafts breaking

So please, stop spreading these fallacies.

Really, my main complaint is this. There is a problem. GM promised they would notify the affected customers. They said that if you don't get a call, your car was fine. Well I'm my car is proof that this did NOT happen. This has been ignored for almost 4 months now. It's time to come clean.

how do you know that they have finished calling people? who's to say that the 20 people that have broken theirs are towards the bottom of the list to be called? or that the other potential owners that are at risk that have been called dont get on forums like we do?

And to those that mentioned GM releasing information caused 'panic du jours', this is false. Every one of them started out as rumors or people just noticing things (break weights). Once GM came clean, the panic stopped. This very topic is another example. Output shafts were breaking, people started panicking. GM put a hold and came clean with the problem and promised to notify those affected, the panic stopped. Now that they haven't lived up to their promise and more are still breaking, the 'panic' is starting again; and rightfully so.

its not GM releasing the info that caused the panic, it was unfounded rumors that caused the panic and caused the firestorm to ensue by not just the members here and on other forums, but other highly viewed websites such at Jalopnik and others.

GM put a hold on production, and fixed cars that had yet to be completed. however, how many cars were built before the hold was placed? what vin range are we at for production now? how many cars that have been built since the hold was released? how many cars might have been just before or after the hold that werent included in the initial list of affected vehicles that are now breaking and the numbers need to be recrunched?

Originally Posted by Ltdodge

well what will happen to those cars that want to mod later down the road? if two years from now you want to add headers, and tune and the car breaks will you get hosed since you modified the car and you no longer have warranty? that's what concerns me. I'm sure Gm knows many will mod their cars so when they do their warranty is no longer valid and they will be off the hook for a faulty transmission shaft that they knew would snap one day.....that's why they rather wait till they break and try to deny your warranty later because of mods...

hell they some guy here cant even get his faulty paint covered under warranty

unless you guarantee in writing with your dealer that you will be covered, any mods you do can/will void your powertrain warranty.

Originally Posted by NAHURRY

The thing that I'm afraid is going to happen is someone's going to pull out
(thats affected) on a busy HWY and break -it, and here comes a fleet of
18 wheelers thats not going to be able to stop in time....Come on GM.

that risk is there any day of the week for any number of drivers/vehicles.
a tire could explode, the engine could seize, you could stall the car, amongst other things


yes it is a new car, yes it should not break, but murphy's law will rear its head at the best/worst of times.

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Assuming they know exactly which ones are affected (they very well may not have records of it), the biggest factor is some just won't ever break. Many of these cars will sit in a garage and hardly ever be driven. Others will only be driven by grandma. Not everyone will drive this car like it was meant to be driven.

That being said, I don't think it requires hard driving for it to happen. There was one instance posted here where it snapped under normal driving. Obviously driving it hard will hasten the issue but it is not the cause.

All metal fatigues over time. When you're putting metal under varying loads all the time like this is, it's going to fatigue faster. When you have a metal that was not heat treated and hardened properly, this is going to dramatically affect the life of the part. While in theory it is possible to break on the highway (particularly if you downshift and mash the gas) the most likely place is from a start, especilly a hard start. This is when the most force is being exerted on the shaft.

good points all around.

Originally Posted by camaro5

I agree with you, and was thinking limited part failure too. I'm just brain-storming about all will break w/ launch control.


All will not break using launch control. some may, most wont. read above for my comments about LC



Tell Al to spill the beans. If he's losing sleep, I want to know why.

Is it simply a small batch of defective parts?

Or a design or programming flaw in all units?

We're not going away until we get answers.

Do you need the mainstream media to pick this up AGAIN, before you give the buying public answers?

Or should we just buy 370Z's, and learn how to live without torque?

OK - I want torque!


EDIT

Oh snap!

If Al Oppenheiser, GM Chief Engineer is losing sleep now, it's NOT a simple, limited part defect.

Al would be sleeping like a baby, knowing the problem was fixed.

Hmmm, so what we have is a design defect, that Al Oppenheiser, GM Chief Engineer can't solve, after months of being made aware of it!

Now that's scary, and would explain GM's wall of silence on the issue.

Or maybe he's losing sleep because there are still a few sporadic cars out there that are still affected, but they cant track them down until the shaft actually breaks?

I'm not Al, I dont know exactly whats going on with this, time will tell tho. GM wont take something like this sitting down. the dealers might, but GM wont.

Originally Posted by CynAgain

There's really no way to prove who is or who is not effected until the problem can reliably be reproduced. How can they recall a car/transmission if they don't fully understand the problem? Four months is a short period of time when testing the theories.

In the grand scheme of things there is a small percentage of cars that have experienced this problem. Collecting information from the customer about when/where/what happened is not 100% reliable as information traverses the process.

It needs to be investigated and proven to conclusively to state the problem. There are thousands of testing hours on these vehicles which go far beyond what we as individuals are willing to do with our cars.

Believe me, I've done some stupid things with this car. One in particular, a complete mistake, was dropping into second gear at 80mph. She bucked HARD and I thought for sure I broke something but alas a couple of thousand miles later... She's fine.

You might want to get your pushrods checked just in case hon
Like UCF w00t said :

Assuming they know exactly which ones are affected (they very well may not have records of it), the biggest factor is some just won't ever break.

Originally Posted by camaro5

You know,

Whatever happens, it doesn't matter. We love this car madly, and simply want the best for it and us.

Supermans is crazy about his IOM SS (yes, I'm jealous) , and just wants to know whether or not he needs an updated transmission that will not break on him.

Nobody wants a driveline to fail on a new car, especially if it is preventable.

But make no mistake...It's just a car, and I'm not mad about anything.

People who get mad about cars or forums, need some REAL problems. They're coming, don't worry.

Originally Posted by Supermans

excellent post. I couldn't have put it any better.. 4 months and counting now..



Let's hope this isn't the case. It would be a shame if GM being silent about this is because of a design defect and GM hasn't figured out in four months how to fix the problem.

The output shafts snapping in the same place each time leads me to believe it has to be one of two scenario's. One being camaro5's theory above (design flaw) and the other having it be the machine that the suppliers used making the shafts weak in the same place. Furthermore having multiple machines would explain some having a problem and others being ok. And like I said in a post above, GM can know how many Camaro's are affected by taking the number of machines used to making the shafts and dividing them up with the number of Camaro's produced up until the point the machine was fixed. Using launch control may weaken the already weak shafts that are affected which is why we are being told not to use launch control. With that said, that would simply be putting ff the problem to happen later on.. That is not something any of us want.

this got me thinking about 4th gens and the tailshaft of the transmission breaking due to the way the torque arm was mounted to it. every one that I saw that broke, broke in the same place due to the stresses put on it (usually at the track with slicks, or with power adders, etc)


the output shafts breaking in the same place might not be a design flaw or a direct weak point per se. it might be that the combination of stresses on the shaft focus on that point.
or it could be a combination of the two. the shaft itself is tested to rotational forces (ie the shaft spinning and turning the driveshaft)
with the up and down flex of the drivetrain during acceleration, its, to an extent, applying a bending force on the shaft more than it might have been designed to handle. just a thought.

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

guys...so, to lessen the chance of breaking the output shaft, are we supposed to hit the button twice to turn stab and trac controls off or hold the button down to turn EVERYTHING off? and do we keep them off ALL the time or just when launching hard?

if its going to break, its going to break. drive however you want.

Originally Posted by Supermans

First of all, we don't know whether or not even driving the vehicle safely and normally in the long term will cause the shaft to break. We do not know if it is a flaw in all Camaro's, or a supplier batch of faulty parts, or a flaw in the overall design. What we do know is a wide range of Camaro's are affected. We know they are snapping in the same place. And we are told not to use launch control by a member here familiar with (but unable to tell us details) with the situation. So to answer your question, it depends on the answers we get to the unknowns at this point, and in fact it may be to your benefit to have it break so you can get it replaced with a stronger or less faulty part if one even exists. So you see our dilemma here.

to everything in this post.


save for the part about LC. my reasons against it are the same as they are against the massive amount of torque management in the computer of this car. LC is similar to a transbrake on an automatic car. you engage it, punch the gas and it holds you at a certain point till you dump the clutch or release the transbrake. when you release either of those, it transfers all that power in one fell swoop to the rest of the drivetrain. and weak points will be found.

I suggest not using it, not because of the output shaft issue, but in general because of the way the system works. it works by constantly adding and removing power to the engine to hold it at a specific rpm, the same way traction and stability control limit the amount of power going to each wheel when you start to slip. when your wheels hook, then slip, then hook, then slip, etc, thats known as wheel hop. and those numerous hook/slip incidents can break stuff real quick.



its a personal issue with me. I dont like when my cars try to think for themselves. the car doesnt know what I'm trying to achieve. it doesnt know that I want to spin the tires and do some donuts, for all it knows, as soon as the wheels break loose, I'm on ice or a slippery road. I remember when I was younger, I took a friends 96Z28 out one day and was going to do a little tire fire... held the brake, punched the gas, and the engine flashed then dropped back to about 1300rpm.... and I sat there.... till I realized that traction control was still on. If I want to push the car, I dont want it trying to control itself. if I spin out and wreck, oh well, thats what my insurance is for, if something breaks, thats what my warranty is for. JMO.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Some people have said that turning EVERYTHING off will help protect it when launching hard. Noone has recommended doing this in normal driving. They are there to protect you (and I know they have saved my ass a couple times). The problem is mine broke before LC really came into play. If I would've launched at 4200RPM with everything off, the results would've been the same.

Either way, LC was designed for this car. It's not an aftermarket hack, it should've been tested thoroughly and proven safe. There is no reason we should not be able to use it.

LC has been tested on this car. it is safe. its designed for the occasional racer who doesnt have the experience to hold the engine at a specific rpm and launch effectively. its the easy way to launch a manual. ask any real racer with a car that has LC and ask what works better for them for launching. LC or their own intuitiveness.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

1. how do you know that they have finished calling people? who's to say that the 20 people that have broken theirs are towards the bottom of the list to be called? or that the other potential owners that are at risk that have been called dont get on forums like we do?

2. its not GM releasing the info that caused the panic, it was unfounded rumors that caused the panic and caused the firestorm to ensue by not just the members here and on other forums, but other highly viewed websites such at Jalopnik and others.

3. GM put a hold on production, and fixed cars that had yet to be completed. however, how many cars were built before the hold was placed? what vin range are we at for production now? how many cars that have been built since the hold was released? how many cars might have been just before or after the hold that werent included in the initial list of affected vehicles that are now breaking and the numbers need to be recrunched?

1. We have not had a single person report of being contacted. I find it hard to believe that either they have gotten to calling everyone but those on this forum or people on this forum have been contacted and not immediately ran to their keyboard to tell us all about it. It's just not plausible. If they are still working on making phone calls, they need to start making more than one a day.

2. You previously said...

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

as far as calling GM out. how many vehicles have been affected so far that we know of? take that number compared to the total amount of camaros produced so far. GM does read these boards and see the problems that are going on. however, there are a LOT of things that they cant just come out and say in the open about what they are doing to fix a problem. why? partly because then people misconstrue whats really going on and everything gets taken out of proportion. at which point, it becomes a rolling snowball picking up speed. Do you remember when the first cars were delivered and there were those "mysterious" brake caliper weights?

how many people flipped their wig and went ape isht on GM for doing this... when they didnt realize that this has been a common practice in nearly every automotive market. it takes time for issues like this to be resolved. and granted, wheel weights on a brake caliper are different than a busted transmission, but the way things get blown up in no time is crazy.

Thank you for proving my point. Right now we have the "unfounded rumor" (well founded IMO) portion going on because GM refuses to comment and live up to their previous promises. If they would spill the beans and do the right thing (notify people), this would all go away. They made this issue all but go away originally by making this promise and now that it hasn't happened, it's back. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. If GM explained the situation in those previous 'panics' when they first started, there never would've been a panic and the various blogs never would've picked up the stories. A mystery with a potential conspiracy is much more entertaining than some completely innocuous wheights being shipped on brakes with a perfectly valid explanation.

3. GM has had 4 months to get this figured out. They should have SOMETHING by now. The best numbers I've seen are around 12000 through somewhere around 22000 when the hold was officially issued. Some cars built before mine were rerouted to Detroit meanwhile mine was delivered. The only assumption I can come to is that this problem is actually more of an engineering/design problem and much bigger than just a bad batch of shafts as has been stated before. You keep saying that we don't know all the facts, well then why doesn't GM come clean so we do?

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

LC has been tested on this car. it is safe. its designed for the occasional racer who doesnt have the experience to hold the engine at a specific rpm and launch effectively. its the easy way to launch a manual. ask any real racer with a car that has LC and ask what works better for them for launching. LC or their own intuitiveness.

Yup, exactly why I've used it. I do know there can be some serious wheel hop when using LC which certainly is very tough on the car. I know it's just your personal feelings on LC and TC in general but it really isn't germane to this discussion and should be left out. This thread is about output shafts, not half shafts.

Maybe one of you gearheads can answer this... how hard/feasible would it be to replace the output shaft in an otherwise working transmission? I have no clue so this is a serious question. If it's extremely difficult/expensive I can understand (although not support) GM's current "we'll fix it if it breaks" policy. But if it's somewhat easy to fix, this is unacceptable.

[Dans2SS]

You know CamaroSpike23, your comment on the 4th gen and this possible bieng a loading issues makes sense to me. I've been wondering why other manufacturers using the same trans haven't had shafts breaking (at least not that I've heard reported).

I mean Tremec sells enough of these trans that they can't just do runs for Ford then Chevy, then Dodge right? They have to be shipping to all 3 at the same time, I assume. So how would Chevy be the only ones having output shaft issues? I'd assume a bad batch would affect more than one builder.

Hopefully it gets fixed. I'm 15370 so I'm thinking my chances of being affected are pretty high. I just haven't had it in me to beat on her with the intent of breaking her.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

1. We have not had a single person report of being contacted. I find it hard to believe that either they have gotten to calling everyone but those on this forum or people on this forum have been contacted and not immediately ran to their keyboard to tell us all about it. It's just not plausible. If they are still working on making phone calls, they need to start making more than one a day.

2. You previously said...

Thank you for proving my point. Right now we have the "unfounded rumor" (well founded IMO) portion going on because GM refuses to comment and live up to their previous promises. If they would spill the beans and do the right thing (notify people), this would all go away. They made this issue all but go away originally by making this promise and now that it hasn't happened, it's back. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. If GM explained the situation in those previous 'panics' when they first started, there never would've been a panic and the various blogs never would've picked up the stories. A mystery with a potential conspiracy is much more entertaining than some completely innocuous wheights being shipped on brakes with a perfectly valid explanation.

3. GM has had 4 months to get this figured out. They should have SOMETHING by now. The best numbers I've seen are around 12000 through somewhere around 22000 when the hold was officially issued. Some cars built before mine were rerouted to Detroit meanwhile mine was delivered. The only assumption I can come to is that this problem is actually more of an engineering/design problem and much bigger than just a bad batch of shafts as has been stated before. You keep saying that we don't know all the facts, well then why doesn't GM come clean so we do?


Yup, exactly why I've used it. I do know there can be some serious wheel hop when using LC which certainly is very tough on the car. I know it's just your personal feelings on LC and TC in general but it really isn't germane to this discussion and should be left out. This thread is about output shafts, not half shafts.

Maybe one of you gearheads can answer this... how hard/feasible would it be to replace the output shaft in an otherwise working transmission? I have no clue so this is a serious question. If it's extremely difficult/expensive I can understand (although not support) GM's current "we'll fix it if it breaks" policy. But if it's somewhat easy to fix, this is unacceptable.

wheelhop is an issue that can break output shafts and half shafts. thats why I included it in this discussion. with the whole "facts" issue. how do we know that GM has all the facts? have you never had a problem that you thought you fixed then it showed up again later down the road. could they have gotten their initial diagnosis wrong and now are trying to find out what really was the problem? IDK. I'm trying to find out.

as far as replacing the output shaft yourself,

http://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tra...-write-up.html

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ild/index.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ion/index.html

Originally Posted by Dans2SS

You know CamaroSpike23, your comment on the 4th gen and this possible bieng a loading issues makes sense to me. I've been wondering why other manufacturers using the same trans haven't had shafts breaking (at least not that I've heard reported).

I mean Tremec sells enough of these trans that they can't just do runs for Ford then Chevy, then Dodge right? They have to be shipping to all 3 at the same time, I assume. So how would Chevy be the only ones having output shaft issues? I'd assume a bad batch would affect more than one builder.

Hopefully it gets fixed. I'm 15370 so I'm thinking my chances of being affected are pretty high. I just haven't had it in me to beat on her with the intent of breaking her.

thats another thing I dont know off hand is the components themselves being the same in different cars. I know with the 4th gen t56's, people used to upgrade to a Viper tailshaft. (30 splines over 27 and a few other differences).

also, keep in mind the way the forces are applied to the drivetrain. it might just be a weak point in these cars. just like the rear ends were the weak point in 4th gens. and EVERYBODY broke those, stock, slicks, didnt matter, but the uproar over it wasn't nearly as big as this is. GM just replaced it with another stock unit. tho I do recall them welding the axle tubes towards the end of the 4th gen run.


for now, I say just drive like you normally would. get on it from time to time. if you want to break it, do a 5-6k clutch dump with everything turned off.

[Dans2SS]

LOL CamaroSpike23. I have your avatar printed out and hanging on my desk.

Wow a 5K clutch drop. I obvioulsy don't drive this car hard enough.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

wheelhop is an issue that can break output shafts and half shafts. thats why I included it in this discussion. with the whole "facts" issue. how do we know that GM has all the facts? have you never had a problem that you thought you fixed then it showed up again later down the road. could they have gotten their initial diagnosis wrong and now are trying to find out what really was the problem? IDK. I'm trying to find out.

as far as replacing the output shaft yourself,

http://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tra...-write-up.html

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ild/index.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ion/index.html

My understanding has been that all of them have broken before wheel hop comes into play, I know mine did.

GM promised they would call us. If they later figured out that they can't do that because they can't figure out who to call, they need to say that and why that is the case. A little honesty and disclosure goes a long way.

So are you saying you have to rebuild the whole transmission to fix it? What's the hours/parts like to swap it?

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Dans2SS

LOL CamaroSpike23. I have your avatar printed out and hanging on my desk.

Wow a 5K clutch drop. I obvioulsy don't drive this car hard enough.

if you want to try and break it, thats the way to go about it.

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

My understanding has been that all of them have broken before wheel hop comes into play, I know mine did.

GM promised they would call us. If they later figured out that they can't do that because they can't figure out who to call, they need to say that and why that is the case. A little honesty and disclosure goes a long way.

So are you saying you have to rebuild the whole transmission to fix it? What's the hours/parts like to swap it?

you dont need to rebuild the whole thing. you can remove the tailshaft of the trans and pull what you need out.




also.


http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52359

[camaro5]

Go Spiker!

So,

Here's my take after reading all this and sleeping on other details...

Some output shafts were defective. Weaker than specs. GM may not be sure which units are effected.

Some of those just break, some have wheel hop to help them break.

I've seen the cv joints blow too, so wheel hop is to be avoided at all costs. (disable tc)

Excellent dialogue. Thanks everyone.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by camaro5

Go Spiker!

So,

Here's my take after reading all this and sleeping on other details...

Some output shafts were defective. Weaker than specs. GM may not be sure which units are effected.

Some of those just break, some have wheel hop to help them break.

I've seen the cv joints blow too, so wheel hop is to be avoided at all costs. (disable tc)

Excellent dialogue. Thanks everyone.

At least we are getting to the bottom of it. It would be nice to get an official statement from GM now and a write-up sent to the dealers so they know about this as well.

There are still unanswered questions that must be answered. Four and a hlaf months is a long time since the last message from Scott about this issue saying we would all be notified if we have a problem. So far that has not happened to a single person that is on this forum. Camarospike asked me where the thread is where someone had their shaft replaced and it was thicker than stock. I know I read it and I know its here, I just can't find it. Overall it is nice we are talking about this however until GM does something about it and lets us all know, it is not enough and my patience at least is running out...

[AlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by Supermans

At least we are getting to the bottom of it. It would be nice to get an official statement from GM now and a write-up sent to the dealers so they know about this as well.

There are still unanswered questions that must be answered. Four and a hlaf months is a long time since the last message from Scott about this issue saying we would all be notified if we have a problem. So far that has not happened to a single person that is on this forum. Camarospike asked me where the thread is where someone had their shaft replaced and it was thicker than stock. I know I read it and I know its here, I just can't find it. Overall it is nice we are talking about this however until GM does something about it and lets us all know, it is not enough and my patience at least is running out...

Just as you say it hasnt happened to a single person it happened to me! and I'm all the way over in DxB and just got my camaro a week ago! I thought being new it wouldve been after they fixed the batch.. turns out my VIN is 17000 so right in teh middle of the 12k-25k range!

I'm lucky I knew about it cause our dealers can be a pain and would've probably had me pay for it if I didnt know about it!

Now I wonder how long it will take them to send a new shaft to DxB!!!

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by AlSuwaidi

Just as you say it hasnt happened to a single person it happened to me! and I'm all the way over in DxB and just got my camaro a week ago! I thought being new it wouldve been after they fixed the batch.. turns out my VIN is 17000 so right in teh middle of the 12k-25k range!

I'm lucky I knew about it cause our dealers can be a pain and would've probably had me pay for it if I didnt know about it!

Now I wonder how long it will take them to send a new shaft to DxB!!!

FYI, they almost certainly won't be sending a new shaft, they'll be sending a whole new T6060 transmission. The internals were likely destroyed when the shaft broke.

Good luck and let us know how it goes! Hopefully they can find a way to get that transmission to you within a reasonable amount of time. And make sure you post your info here.

[AlSuwaidi]

AHhhhh I love that car ! I dont wanna wait weeks for a new tranny! I sold my 1 yr old X5 4.8, which I also loved and was hard to part with, to get that car and now im left with nothing :(

Should get update today.. will post.