Transmission output shaft

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

seriously?

sometimes I wonder why I try and help you guys when all you do is bite the hand that feeds you. I step in trying to help you and all you can do is chastise me for it.

Yes, I've been speaking to contacts at GM. But do you realize how many people work for GM? and how many of those people dont know every detail of what is going on? My contacts have given me the info that they have.

as for the info they've given me, I've given it to you. this "data" that you want.... what data do you want? a list of vins that have been affected?
we've got a sticky with that info. do you want a list of vins that have been affected but arent on this website? good luck. thats privacy information there.
did you even read those quotes?



you guys are picking and choosing what you want to see and what you want to deny.


what you are seeing:


what you are denying:






now, as to which cars are affected... thats still in work.
The VINs are assigned after the body shop. And the Transmissions are stamped with a number that corresponds to the VIN...however, it is incredibly difficult to trace specifically which transmissions were the faulty ones

What info have you provided? I've seen you ask questions but I haven't seen anything new that we didn't already know. Are your contacts from GM just reading stuff that's been posted on here?

To be honest, I never expected a VIN list for the reason you stated. But then again, don't they provide this info for recalls? And Scott clearly stated (and repeated) that they would provide one...

Yes I read the quotes. It's been 4 months!!!! Surely they could've figured it out by now. Maybe this is on some engineer's 'back burner' but it's clear that this hasn't been given high enough priority and manpower (assuming they are still working on it). Why haven't they said a single thing since? This thread has been going on for a while. There's been other threads. They could've popped in there or passed word to a mod to give us some info. But nope, nothing.

I tried starting a thread to do this "my way" since your way hasn't gotten us anywhere but Dragon decided to close it. Oh but now he's going to do me a favor (even though I've already had mine replaced lol) and try to get info out of GM behind the scenes. Because we all know how well that has worked. He's trying to contain any "silly" panic du jour but that's exactly what I was going for since it's the only way to get answers out of them and it's much deserved in this case.

[Dans2SS]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

this forum has a lot of members and we are tied very closely with GM. if it wasnt for GM, we wouldnt have a reason to be here. They chose us to give a lot of information to before this car was even being produced. They dont run our operations by any means, but we do respect what they have done for us.

I appreciate the fact that people are trying to get to the bottom of this.

But if it wasn't for us buying these cars and our tax money then going to bail out GM. GM wouldn't be around. If a list exist I think GM should relaase it. What is the law on recalls? How many have to break before a recall is done. Is there even a rule on that?

I've always supported American brands, but I'm tired of the what seems to be the attitude of these companies. They aren't 'owed' my business and in a few occasions I've let them slide where they didn't even have to 'earn' it. Shame on me I guess.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

seriously?

sometimes I wonder why I try and help you guys when all you do is bite the hand that feeds you.

this forum has a lot of members and we are tied very closely with GM. if it wasnt for GM, we wouldnt have a reason to be here.

They dont run our operations by any means, but we do respect what they have done for us.


as for your safety on this issue... what safety issue is there that we should be so worried about?

did you even read those quotes?

The safety issue I am talking about is the shaft breaking while pulling out into traffic and getting T-boned by an oncoming vehicle. I would love to see GM feed me more information on this issue than they have currently. As for privacy information on releasing VIN's, what I have been asking for is a Vin range of affected vehicles that is more precise, as in contacting those owners with vehicles that fall within 20 builds in front and below of each car affected and let us know what we can do about it. And if you do not think there is a safety issue with this shaft breaking anywhere other than a racetrack or dragstrip, then you don't understand my overall concern and reason for posting in this thread. This is not like waiting for the air conditioner to fail... Also, I appreciate your trying to help Camarospike23, my criticism is not on you or this forum but on GM's response and handling. UCF w00t and I are passionate about this issue for all of us here because we care. So far a thread (that wasn't closed down) about this issue is long overdo. I know the general instinct of the moderators and the admin of this forum is to protect GM and when asked by them you guys shut down threads and so forth. That is the owners prerogative. However as users and supporters of this site who did go out and buy a Camaro SS as an early adopter, much more attention should have been placed on this issue without us having to complain about a lack of information and as Scott puts it, creating a "panic du jour". We shouldn't need to go to such drastic measures to get answers.

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

What info have you provided? I've seen you ask questions but I haven't seen anything new that we didn't already know. Are your contacts from GM just reading stuff that's been posted on here?

To be honest, I never expected a VIN list for the reason you stated. But then again, don't they provide this info for recalls? And Scott clearly stated (and repeated) that they would provide one...

Yes I read the quotes. It's been 4 months!!!! Surely they could've figured it out by now. Maybe this is on some engineer's 'back burner' but it's clear that this hasn't been given high enough priority and manpower (assuming they are still working on it). Why haven't they said a single thing since? This thread has been going on for a while. There's been other threads. They could've popped in there or passed word to a mod to give us some info. But nope, nothing.

I tried starting a thread to do this "my way" since your way hasn't gotten us anywhere but Dragon decided to close it. Oh but now he's going to do me a favor (even though I've already had mine replaced lol) and try to get info out of GM behind the scenes. Because we all know how well that has worked. He's trying to contain any "silly" panic du jour but that's exactly what I was going for since it's the only way to get answers out of them and it's much deserved in this case.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

What info have you provided? I've seen you ask questions but I haven't seen anything new that we didn't already know. Are your contacts from GM just reading stuff that's been posted on here?

To be honest, I never expected a VIN list for the reason you stated. But then again, don't they provide this info for recalls? And Scott clearly stated (and repeated) that they would provide one...

Yes I read the quotes. It's been 4 months!!!! Surely they could've figured it out by now. Maybe this is on some engineer's 'back burner' but it's clear that this hasn't been given high enough priority and manpower (assuming they are still working on it). Why haven't they said a single thing since? This thread has been going on for a while. There's been other threads. They could've popped in there or passed word to a mod to give us some info. But nope, nothing.

I tried starting a thread to do this "my way" since your way hasn't gotten us anywhere but Dragon decided to close it. Oh but now he's going to do me a favor (even though I've already had mine replaced lol) and try to get info out of GM behind the scenes. Because we all know how well that has worked. He's trying to contain any "silly" panic du jour but that's exactly what I was going for since it's the only way to get answers out of them and it's much deserved in this case.

its been 4 months. you go find the stamp on your transmission and cross reference it to your vin, then check that with the transmission that you broke. then trace that trans back to the assembly line where it was put together, then trace that back to the day and time it was built, then find the bins with the parts that were used for your trans and trace them back to where and when they were made.

written out, yeah, that seems easy. but actually getting all that info, for over 10,000 cars...
tell me how long you think that should take.




if you arent expecting a vin list, what are you expecting?

you broke your transmission correct?

it was replaced under warranty correct?

GM told you what the problem was and how difficult it is to isolate each and every affected trans.


what else are they supposed to tell you? YOUR problem has been fixed. your transmission has been replaced.



doing things "your way" is going on an internet forum and making a thread quoting Scott and only focusing on half of what was said. then just sitting back and waiting. how many times have you called GM? how many times have you been to the local GM dealers in your area and pushed this issue? have you called tremec? or any of the other manufacturers for the TR6060 parts? have you tried PM'ing ANY of the GM members we have on here? or do you continue to do the lazy thing and make a complaint and then sit back and wait for everyone else to do the work for you?



its no different than the people who cant figure out where a jackstand goes under the car. instead of raising the car up and trying the jackstand in different places, they post a question online and wait for someone to hold their hand.


this thread is not "my way" of doing things, the other thread listing the affected owners wasnt "my way" either. I did that to satiate you guys. I dont even know what "my way" of doing things is.


Yes, there are still affected transmissions out there. look at the numbers. how many V8 M6 owners are on this site? how many V8 M6 cars have been sold? we are a minority.

what information does GM owe you specifically that does not concern your car?


there is no panic de jour going on right now. you guys are trying to force GM into giving you information that you dont even understand. yeah, its easy to say "well, its been 4 months, we want answers." youve been given the answers, you've been told what the problem is and your car has been fixed. in fact, IIRC, EVERY car that this has affected has been fixed...under warranty. what more do you want?

Originally Posted by Dans2SS

I appreciate the fact that people are trying to get to the bottom of this.

But if it wasn't for us buying these cars and our tax money then going to bail out GM. GM wouldn't be around. If a list exist I think GM should relaase it. What is the law on recalls? How many have to break before a recall is done. Is there even a rule on that?

I've always supported American brands, but I'm tired of the what seems to be the attitude of these companies. They aren't 'owed' my business and in a few occasions I've let them slide where they didn't even have to 'earn' it. Shame on me I guess.

GM doesnt need Camaro5.com members buying these cars. we have almost 20k people on this site. barely half of the members on here have a 5th gen right now. so thats 10k people maaaaaybe that have a car. GM's sold 60k so far...

meaning......?

that 50,000 OTHER people that dont frequent internet forums, that are just regular everyday joe schmoes are buying MORE cars than US. the majority of the buyers of this car are the regular people out there. and a lot of our new members have joined AFTER they bought the Camaro. so you can take that 10k on here and take off about 3,000 or so.



your next point is spot on. but, what if a list hasnt been made or completed? yes, its been 4 months, but how many cars have been made? how many components installed? how long was the initial QC hold when this issue arose? a month or so? these things take time.

as for a recall, it has to affect a larger amount of cars than what it is to warrant a recall. if say 1 in a 1000 odds that a shaft were affected, and there's... say 20,000 m6's out there, what sense would it make for GM to recall 20,000 cars to fix 20 transmissions?


not saying I like it, but I would do the same thing if I were in their shoes.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Supermans

The safety issue I am talking about is the shaft breaking while pulling out into traffic and getting T-boned by an oncoming vehicle. I would love to see GM feed me more information on this issue than they have currently. As for privacy information on releasing VIN's, what I have been asking for is a Vin range of affected vehicles that is more precise, as in contacting those owners with vehicles that fall within 20 builds in front and below of each car affected and let us know what we can do about it. And if you do not think there is a safety issue with this shaft breaking anywhere other than a racetrack or dragstrip, then you don't understand my overall concern and reason for posting in this thread. This is not like waiting for the air conditioner to fail... Also, I appreciate your trying to help Camarospike23, my criticism is not on you or this forum but on GM's response and handling.

what are you going to do when you get T-boned by an oncoming vehicle that runs a red light? maybe GM should have started building Sherman tanks for everyone to drive.

the shaft breaking does not directly lead to a safety issue. yes, you can think of a hundred examples where it would be unfortunate for it to fail. just as you can probably think of a hundred examples where any other part on the car failing could be just as bad. say you seized a rod and locked up the engine and stopped in traffic? or you hit a pothole and blew two tires out.

I understand your point on the safety issue. but picking one specific scenario isnt the same as needing a safety recal. now if it were something like SUV's rolling over on slight turns, or Firestone tires blowing out at high speed, thats one thing, but the output shaft snapping and leaving you stranded is not a safety issue. it could lead to a bad situation, but the shaft itself is not a safety issue.


the vin range is not going to be precise. because, say the range is from 5k to 20k. thats 15k cars. say about half are m6's. so that gives us 8k cars give or take. their vins range from 5k to 20k... say 3 of those cars are affected. you cant get that precise without pointing out the specific vins of those cars. not every transmission on the assembly line was made in chronological order. meaning that you could have two m6's built one after the other, and one gets a good trans and the other gets a bad trans. thats what GM is working on now. trying to track down the transmissions. its not an easy process to do. The vin's are assigned after the body shop. the transmissions are stamped with a number that corresponds to the vin. but to find which ones specifically are bad from those numbers is not easy. it takes time. in the mean time, enjoy the car. if it breaks, the warranty is there.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

1. its been 4 months. you go find the stamp on your transmission and cross reference it to your vin, then check that with the transmission that you broke. then trace that trans back to the assembly line where it was put together, then trace that back to the day and time it was built, then find the bins with the parts that were used for your trans and trace them back to where and when they were made.

written out, yeah, that seems easy. but actually getting all that info, for over 10,000 cars...
tell me how long you think that should take.

2. if you arent expecting a vin list, what are you expecting?

you broke your transmission correct?

it was replaced under warranty correct?

GM told you what the problem was and how difficult it is to isolate each and every affected trans.


3. what else are they supposed to tell you? YOUR problem has been fixed. your transmission has been replaced.



4. doing things "your way" is going on an internet forum and making a thread quoting Scott and only focusing on half of what was said. then just sitting back and waiting. how many times have you called GM? how many times have you been to the local GM dealers in your area and pushed this issue? have you called tremec? or any of the other manufacturers for the TR6060 parts? have you tried PM'ing ANY of the GM members we have on here? or do you continue to do the lazy thing and make a complaint and then sit back and wait for everyone else to do the work for you?


5. this thread is not "my way" of doing things, the other thread listing the affected owners wasnt "my way" either. I did that to satiate you guys. I dont even know what "my way" of doing things is.


6. Yes, there are still affected transmissions out there. look at the numbers. how many V8 M6 owners are on this site? how many V8 M6 cars have been sold? we are a minority.

7. what information does GM owe you specifically that does not concern your car?


8. there is no panic de jour going on right now. you guys are trying to force GM into giving you information that you dont even understand. yeah, its easy to say "well, its been 4 months, we want answers." youve been given the answers, you've been told what the problem is and your car has been fixed. in fact, IIRC, EVERY car that this has affected has been fixed...under warranty. what more do you want?

1. It's called a "computer". A while back they invented these things called "databases". I would hope it would take them about 10 seconds to look this information up.

2. I want GM to call the affected owners.

3. GM never officially said what the problem was. That was a rumor that never got quashed and went to the "confirmed" bin by their omission.

4. Half of what they said? He said "soon". It's been 4 months. Soon went out the door a looong time ago. So you'd rather me PM fbodfather and Number 3? Seriously? Where the hell would that get us?If I did I would just ask them to comment on the previous threads. I don't want some secret information, I want a public statement or at least them (whoever at GM) making some friggen phone calls like they promised. And calling the public tremec hotline? LOL. Ummm ok. You expect them to say "Sure, let me connect you to an engineer." There's no way in hell they're going to provide any information. Why would I waste my time? And dealerships? We all know how much help they are. I knew more about the issue than they did! Lazy? The lazy thing would be to do nothing.

5. Your way of doing things doesn't exist, apparently.

6. You damn well know the importance (as does GM) of the loyal members of this forum. So don't even try to minimize that.

7. GM owed me a phone call (a little late now), as they do all of the other affected people. That's what they promised, not tremec. We shouldn't have to go doing their jobs for them.

8. Information we don't understand? Like what? How is "Your car is affected by an issue that will cause your transmission to malfunction prematurely. Please bring it to your dealer at your earliest convenience to have them repair it" hard to understand? That's all I'm asking for.

[Dans2SS]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

GM doesnt need Camaro5.com members buying these cars. we have almost 20k people on this site. barely half of the members on here have a 5th gen right now. so thats 10k people maaaaaybe that have a car. GM's sold 60k so far...

meaning......?

that 50,000 OTHER people that dont frequent internet forums, that are just regular everyday joe schmoes are buying MORE cars than US. the majority of the buyers of this car are the regular people out there. and a lot of our new members have joined AFTER they bought the Camaro. so you can take that 10k on here and take off about 3,000 or so.



your next point is spot on. but, what if a list hasnt been made or completed? yes, its been 4 months, but how many cars have been made? how many components installed? how long was the initial QC hold when this issue arose? a month or so? these things take time.

as for a recall, it has to affect a larger amount of cars than what it is to warrant a recall. if say 1 in a 1000 odds that a shaft were affected, and there's... say 20,000 m6's out there, what sense would it make for GM to recall 20,000 cars to fix 20 transmissions?


not saying I like it, but I would do the same thing if I were in their shoes.

Well, I wasn't tallking only Camaro5 members, anyone with a Camaro. Hell anyone that trusted in GM enough to still buy a car from them recently. I think we deserves the best treatment that GM can provide. Our money (bailout and car payments) is helping keep them going. yes I want GM to

I'd been cool if GM said we are going to call everyone affected, but its going to take X months. But they only said they were going to call. So we assume it was something that would be happening in short order. It is what it is. I hope mine doesn't break, but if it does it isn't like I can do much about it. I'll be mad, but I'm sure GM doesnt' care if I'm mad.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

1. It's called a "computer". A while back they invented these things called "databases". I would hope it would take them about 10 seconds to look this information up.
if and only if, they had a program set up to be able to filter down that information. yes they have computers, but computers need software programing to run. IF they had a program to filter the search criteria down to what they want, it would only take 10 seconds to do. however, you still have to figure out which transmissions are affected. and a database isnt going to tell you specifically which output shaft went into which transmission. yeah, you could probably find out which transmission went into which car, but the transmission as a whole is not the problem.


2. I want GM to call the affected owners.
find out which transmissions are still affected first.

3. GM never officially said what the problem was. That was a rumor that never got quashed and went to the "confirmed" bin by their omission.
bull shit. Scott came on here and told us that there was an issue with a supplier that they had a bad string of output shafts that were heat treated incorrectly.


4. Half of what they said? He said "soon". It's been 4 months. Soon went out the door a looong time ago. So you'd rather me PM fbodfather and Number 3? Seriously? Where the hell would that get us?If I did I would just ask them to comment on the previous threads. I don't want some secret information, I want a public statement or at least them (whoever at GM) making some friggen phone calls like they promised. And calling the public tremec hotline? LOL. Ummm ok. You expect them to say "Sure, let me connect you to an engineer." There's no way in hell they're going to provide any information. Why would I waste my time? And dealerships? We all know how much help they are. I knew more about the issue than they did! Lazy? The lazy thing would be to do nothing.

there's more than just Fbod and Number 3 on here. soon can be anything. "soon" was the camaro making it from concept to production in the time it did. "soon" was the amount of time people had to wait for their cars to be built and delivered.

so what have you done besides post in here about it?



5. Your way of doing things doesn't exist, apparently.

my way of doing things changes every minute depending on the scenario.


6. You damn well know the importance (as does GM) of the loyal members of this forum. So don't even try to minimize that.
I do know the importance of the loyal members. but as a sales number, we are a minority. we do help keep the car alive, but we are not the driving sales of this car. John Q. Public is.

7. GM owed me a phone call (a little late now), as they do all of the other affected people. That's what they promised, not tremec. We shouldn't have to go doing their jobs for them.
where did they promise you that? in the quotes you posted from Scott? the quotes that you decided to only pay attention to half of?

Yes, they said they would call affected owners AFTER they figured out which owners to call. how are they supposed to call you if they havent determined if your car is affected or not?

you think things just happen overnight. its not that easy.

8. Information we don't understand? Like what? How is "Your car is affected by an issue that will cause your transmission to malfunction prematurely. Please bring it to your dealer at your earliest convenience to have them repair it" hard to understand? That's all I'm asking for.

again, you have to know WHICH cars are affected before you tell people to bring their cars in. if you have to filter thru ten thousand cars to find 20 that are affected, IT TAKES TIME. 4 months may seem like forever to you, but its not. thats the part that you keep missing.

tell you what, go to this link
http://www.z28.com/LyleA/93-02%20%20...s%20Manual.pdf


imagine that each page on that link is one build listing for a camaro. filter thru each and every page and manually look for every instance of the number 0.682. there's only 1300 pages, then when you get done, search manually for every instance of the number 1.874 then do it again 8 more times with other numbers so you have eventually looked thru 10,000 pages of information. and dont use the search function cus chances are GM doesnt have each and every build set up in a pdf format. you should be done "soon"


I'm trying to tell you guys that 4 months isnt a long time and that trying to figure out which bad shafts got installed in which transmissions and which transmissions got installed into which cars is not an easy process. the bigger issue has been resolved in that no newer cars are being built with sub-par shafts.

Originally Posted by Dans2SS

Well, I wasn't tallking only Camaro5 members, anyone with a Camaro. Hell anyone that trusted in GM enough to still buy a car from them recently. I think we deserves the best treatment that GM can provide. Our money (bailout and car payments) is helping keep them going. yes I want GM to

I'd been cool if GM said we are going to call everyone affected, but its going to take X months. But they only said they were going to call. So we assume it was something that would be happening in short order. It is what it is. I hope mine doesn't break, but if it does it isn't like I can do much about it. I'll be mad, but I'm sure GM doesnt' care if I'm mad.

the problem is, how do you say "it will take us X months to find which cars are affected?"

and just like you said, we ASSUMED it would happen in short order without fully realizing what steps had to be taken in order to notify the respective members.

GM does care if you are mad. thats why they are so adamant about (at the very least) repairing your car if/when it does break.




the latest vin range we have is less than 20k. anyone below that zone with a v8 manual is a potential for output shaft breakage.

[UCF w00t]

I'm trying to tell you that there's no way in hell it would take them 4months to get a range of affected cars. You don't need a special program to filter the data. Every database in the world has an interface built in using a scripting language (99.9% of the time it's SQL) to easily grab what you're looking for. Seriously, if they give me access their database and the parameters, I'll grab the data they're looking for. Here's a sample...

select * from camaros where transmissionSerial > XXXXXXX AND transmissionSerial < XXXXXXXX and modelyear = 2010

Obviously I have no clue what their database schema looks like but it can't be too far off.

Tremec isn't going to completely randomly build transmission shafts, hold onto some and put them in later randomly. They're going to get made and stuck into transmissions rather soon. This would probably take some coordination with tremec but they should be able to figure out at least an approximate range of transmissions built with problem shafts. Then GM should be able to use that information in their query to pull up the numbers. They don't need software written for this (although they probably already have it) but someone with access to the database and a basic understanding. Of course they don't have them all in PDF, that would be stupid, they have each build in their databases. There's no way you're going to convince me that they don't have this ability, it's idiotic to think otherwise.

You keep suggesting that I do something, what do you want me to do? I don't work for GM, I don't have access to the information needed. You've stated that you've hit the GM contacts on here for info and they've provided all that they can (nothing) so why should I harass them more? Who else besides fbod and #3 are on here that could even remotely provide info? Al Oppenheiser made one post on here. codeman just works on software stuff. Who am I missing?

I searched long and hard for Scott's quote regarding the actual cause and it doesn't exist. I re-read all of his posts from early July. Everyone just ran with it since they never denied it. Get your facts straight before calling bullshit on me.

Originally Posted by Tran

As posted on Homepage.

Many of you are understandably concerned regarding whether your Camaro is potentially afflicted with the same issue that has caused a small group of 6-speed Camaro SS's to experience transmission output shaft breakage. Rest assured, GM has now represented that they will contact by phone *every* owner who currently owns a Camaro SS with 6-speed manual transmission IF it has or is suspected of having faulty parts which may lead to such issue. This will begin as soon as the GM's internal investigation into the issue is completed, hopefully within the next two weeks.

This means that if you do not hear from someone at GM regarding your car, then your transmission is fine.

From that, we can safely assume that their definition of "soon" in this instance was in the area of weeks, not months. That was "official" word from GM. I don't know who gave tran that statement (I'm guessing John) but if it's incorrect, they should have had tran correct it. You're just scraping for excuses. We're all GM fanboys here but use some common sense please.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

I'm trying to tell you that there's no way in hell it would take them 4months to get a range of affected cars. You don't need a special program to filter the data. Every database in the world has an interface built in using a scripting language (99.9% of the time it's SQL) to easily grab what you're looking for. Seriously, if they give me access their database and the parameters, I'll grab the data they're looking for. Here's a sample...

select * from camaros where transmissionSerial > XXXXXXX AND transmissionSerial < XXXXXXXX and modelyear = 2010

Obviously I have no clue what their database schema looks like but it can't be too far off.

Tremec isn't going to completely randomly build transmission shafts, hold onto some and put them in later randomly. They're going to get made and stuck into transmissions rather soon. This would probably take some coordination with tremec but they should be able to figure out at least an approximate range of transmissions built with problem shafts. Then GM should be able to use that information in their query to pull up the numbers. They don't need software written for this (although they probably already have it) but someone with access to the database and a basic understanding. Of course they don't have them all in PDF, that would be stupid, they have each build in their databases. There's no way you're going to convince me that they don't have this ability, it's idiotic to think otherwise.

You keep suggesting that I do something, what do you want me to do? I don't work for GM, I don't have access to the information needed. You've stated that you've hit the GM contacts on here for info and they've provided all that they can (nothing) so why should I harass them more? Who else besides fbod and #3 are on here that could even remotely provide info? Al Oppenheiser made one post on here. codeman just works on software stuff. Who am I missing?

I searched long and hard for Scott's quote regarding the actual cause and it doesn't exist. I re-read all of his posts from early July. Everyone just ran with it since they never denied it. Get your facts straight before calling bullshit on me.


From that, we can safely assume that their definition of "soon" in this instance was in the area of weeks, not months. That was "official" word from GM. I don't know who gave tran that statement (I'm guessing John) but if it's incorrect, they should have had tran correct it. You're just scraping for excuses. We're all GM fanboys here but use some common sense please.

it is posted in here that it was a heat treating issue. It might not have been Scott directly saying it, but it was posted here. I'll be back with it later.




as for the search critera for GM to use. ok.. you find which transmissions are in which cars. great. does that same search feature tell you specifically which output shafts were put into which transmissions? Tremec doesnt build the shafts. they assemble the transmissions with parts sourced elsewhere. and its the outsourced parts that are the issue. that is the issue with this. its not a matter of just finding transmissions, its finding which transmissions had specific parts put into them. but if you think you can do a better job of finding them, put in a resume to GM and find the info for them.





from "that" we cant safely assume anything. thats the whole problem. everyone ASSUMED that it would be fixed in short order. did you ask what their definition of "soon" was?

common sense would dictate that you wouldnt assume things.



if you want a vin range, start at zero and go up to the point where the QC hold was introduced. 0-22k.

there's your range. now, go find every V8 m6 owner in that range and tell them that they may or may not have a problem with their transmission.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

it is posted in here that it was a heat treating issue. It might not have been Scott directly saying it, but it was posted here. I'll be back with it later.

Funny how you change your tune. GM never stated nor acknowledged that it, in fact, is a heat treating issue. In fact, I'm not sure they even said it was the output shaft. Scott said it was a "supplier issue" but that's it.

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

as for the search critera for GM to use. ok.. you find which transmissions are in which cars. great. does that same search feature tell you specifically which output shafts were put into which transmissions? Tremec doesnt build the shafts. they assemble the transmissions with parts sourced elsewhere. and its the outsourced parts that are the issue. that is the issue with this. its not a matter of just finding transmissions, its finding which transmissions had specific parts put into them. but if you think you can do a better job of finding them, put in a resume to GM and find the info for them.

Like I said, they aren't randomly putting these things in. It's not like they're "shuffling" them up. There's a time frame where they got a bad batch (in house or outside supplier). They built a certain range of transmissions in that time frame. Those transmissions went into specific cars. This isn't that hard. I've got a good job now. Why would I want to take a pay cut to move to cold ass Michigan where I have no family and friends (and no beach!) working for a company whose future is anything but certain? Come on now. Stop being ridiculous. You asked that I provide suggestions, I'm doing that. You have yet to offer a single suggestion of what we can reasonably do to remedy this.

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

from "that" we cant safely assume anything. thats the whole problem. everyone ASSUMED that it would be fixed in short order. did you ask what their definition of "soon" was?

common sense would dictate that you wouldnt assume things.

People asked for deadlines. Scott refused to provide them. Tran's post clearly states "hopefully within the next two weeks." How in the hell do you go from 2 weeks to 4 months and think that's OK?

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

if you want a vin range, start at zero and go up to the point where the QC hold was introduced. 0-22k.

there's your range. now, go find every V8 m6 owner in that range and tell them that they may or may not have a problem with their transmission.

If GM needs to issue a TSB and contact all ~10k or so of those people and ask them to bring their cars in for a look, that's what they need to do. I don't have their contact information, GM does. They could easily create an automated mailer to send out to those owners. I know for a fact that they have that capability.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Funny how you change your tune. GM never stated nor acknowledged that it, in fact, is a heat treating issue. In fact, I'm not sure they even said it was the output shaft. Scott said it was a "supplier issue" but that's it.


Like I said, they aren't randomly putting these things in. It's not like they're "shuffling" them up. There's a time frame where they got a bad batch (in house or outside supplier). They built a certain range of transmissions in that time frame. Those transmissions went into specific cars. This isn't that hard. I've got a good job now. Why would I want to take a pay cut to move to cold ass Michigan where I have no family and friends (and no beach!) working for a company whose future is anything but certain? Come on now. Stop being ridiculous. You asked that I provide suggestions, I'm doing that. You have yet to offer a single suggestion of what we can reasonably do to remedy this.

People asked for deadlines. Scott refused to provide them. Tran's post clearly states "hopefully within the next two weeks." How in the hell do you go from 2 weeks to 4 months and think that's OK?


If GM needs to issue a TSB and contact all ~10k or so of those people and ask them to bring their cars in for a look, that's what they need to do. I don't have their contact information, GM does. They could easily create an automated mailer to send out to those owners. I know for a fact that they have that capability.

Thank God there are concerned Camaro owners like you in this forum. Thanks UCF w00t for bringing up all the points I would like to bring up as well about this. There is no need for me to regurgitate other than to your posts.

So we get a little tidbit of information more. Tremec got the bad batch of shafts from one of their suppliers. Well, then GM better be coordinating with Tremec (and 4 1/2 months is a long time) and letting them know which parts were affected so they can pull up on their databases which batch of shafts got put in them when they built the things. So far there should be enough Camaro's affected with this problem to be able to coordinate a data gathering mission to get to the bottom of this. And "we the people", who now are owners of GM technically shouldn't be left in the dark about this. Especially owners of the product... We don't need excuses anymore from camarospike as to how little an amount of time 4 months is and how appropriate it is for GM not to give us any information at all officially. I know there are more of us here in this forum interested in this topic, just not everyone has the time to check everyday and post their concerns. Camarospike, please stop taking me and ucfwoot's comments as attacks against you or GM, it is not at all. Focus on the solution and what can be done within our limits. If GM is not cooperating with us, then we have to be tough with GM, you have to question what they are doing instead of always defending them no matter what friends or connections you or this forum has. We cannot gather all the information and think we can do a better job than GM can at figuring this out, nor is it our jobs. I tried many times in older posts to gather vin data only to have those threads locked. I have called GM's customer service asking about this issue and never ever received a call back. It is time we stand together and quit the bickering over nonsense. WE have a problem, it is a serious issue, it can potentially be fatal if it occurs at the wrong time.

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

what are you going to do when you get T-boned by an oncoming vehicle that runs a red light? maybe GM should have started building Sherman tanks for everyone to drive.

the shaft breaking does not directly lead to a safety issue. yes, you can think of a hundred examples where it would be unfortunate for it to fail. just as you can probably think of a hundred examples where any other part on the car failing could be just as bad. say you seized a rod and locked up the engine and stopped in traffic? or you hit a pothole and blew two tires out.

I understand your point on the safety issue. but picking one specific scenario isnt the same as needing a safety recal. now if it were something like SUV's rolling over on slight turns, or Firestone tires blowing out at high speed, thats one thing, but the output shaft snapping and leaving you stranded is not a safety issue. it could lead to a bad situation, but the shaft itself is not a safety issue.


the vin range is not going to be precise. because, say the range is from 5k to 20k. thats 15k cars. say about half are m6's. so that gives us 8k cars give or take. their vins range from 5k to 20k... say 3 of those cars are affected. you cant get that precise without pointing out the specific vins of those cars. not every transmission on the assembly line was made in chronological order. meaning that you could have two m6's built one after the other, and one gets a good trans and the other gets a bad trans. thats what GM is working on now. trying to track down the transmissions. its not an easy process to do. The vin's are assigned after the body shop. the transmissions are stamped with a number that corresponds to the vin. but to find which ones specifically are bad from those numbers is not easy. it takes time. in the mean time, enjoy the car. if it breaks, the warranty is there.

No need to belittle me on being concerned for my and everyone elses safety. The difference between this issue and everything else in the car that can fail, is that this is a known problem which can be fixed with a recall and replacement of the bad shaft before it occurs. Gm should think about losing money replacing them before someone gets killed..

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

If GM needs to issue a TSB and contact all ~10k or so of those people and ask them to bring their cars in for a look, that's what they need to do. I don't have their contact information, GM does. They could easily create an automated mailer to send out to those owners. I know for a fact that they have that capability.

Amen to that..

[UCF w00t]

FWIW, dragon is working this as well and seems to think he can succeed where spike has failed (contacting his peeps at GM). He wouldn't give me a timeline (sounds familiar) but if we don't get SOMETHING soon, I'll start another thread if I need to and get the various blogs involved.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

FWIW, dragon is working this as well and seems to think he can succeed where spike has failed (contacting his peeps at GM). He wouldn't give me a timeline (sounds familiar) but if we don't get SOMETHING soon, I'll start another thread if I need to and get the various blogs involved.

Sounds like a plan. Let me know if there is anyway I can help as well.